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  1. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    This "logic" is badly flawed. MANY of God's servants performed miracles. John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 20:17 ... go to my brethren, and say...
  2. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    I would agree we have different understandings regarding SEVERAL concepts involved in this discussion. It is by no means limited to "Person" and "Being", but those might be core issues. Please show Scripture that defines your understanding of the terms. I have already shown Scripture...
  3. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Yes, one of Christ's names would be "Pele-Yoweets-Eel-Gibowr-Abiy-Ad-Sar-Shaalowm" .... much like the previous chapter, where another child was called, Maher-shalal-hash-baz. "PeleYoweetsEelGibowrAbiyAdSarShaalowm" means; the wonderful counselor of the Mighty God (who is the Everlasting Father)...
  4. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    You misunderstand LOGOS, ESPECIALLY as John uses it. The most natural definition of LOGOS is words, an uttered thought, even the reasoning/motive behind those words. The consistent usage of LOGOS in John's writing is "words", or "sayings".... about FOURTY times in the gospel of John alone! Here...
  5. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    You are very welcome. Very true! And at times the trinitarians have been badly mistreated. Being persecuted is certainly NOT proof that we have the truth. But, being in the majority is almost always a sign we are wrong. Heavens no! I am not angry at all. Disappointed, yes. No, there are two...
  6. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    No I am not a Jehovah's Witness. Their movement split from us in the 1800's. I am a member of the Church of God, which the Catholics split from beginning in apostolic times, and then began persecuting my brothers and sisters. Due to the fact that history is written by the victors, you will ONLY...
  7. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Of course. The more than 5000 times it is used in the OT, makes it VERY clear, it is Elohiym's personal name. Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. Jehovah is The supreme being, the Creator...
  8. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Yep, this is the 2nd option. THOSE people standing with Jesus, had neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. Israel did both. So did Adam and Eve. So did Moses.
  9. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    No, The Father's foreknowledge of Jesus was glorious. The Father alone is God, John 17:3 And this is Eternal Life, that they might know THEE the ONLY true God, and Jesus Christ whom THOU hast sent.
  10. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Not even CLOSE to a claim that no man has heard the Father, except Jesus. Jehovah spoke directly to Israel, and they were terrified. They BEGGED Jehovah to speak to Moses, and let Moses then speak to them, which Jehovah agreed to do. THEN, Jehovah told Moses; Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said...
  11. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Utterly impossible. Jehovah/YHVH God authorizes us to use reality as a test of truth, and the convoluted, contradictory reasoning that both Jesus and his God are Jehovah is a perfect example of the impossibility of the trinity.
  12. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    The desperate attempt to distort John 8:58 into a "claim" that Jesus is Jehovah underscores the utter lack of ANYTHING remotely supporting trinity. The Greek prepositional phrase ego emi doesn't compare to the Greek translation of Ex 3:14 in the LXX... where those Hebrew translators rendered it...
  13. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    Nope, from Mt. Sinai. ..... You have a verse for "No man has heard the Father"???
  14. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    The problem is there are at least 3 meanings for "see the Father". The MOST restrictive is the definition Jehovah Himself gives. Ex 33:17 And Jehovah said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; for thou hast found favor in My sight, and I know thee by name. 18 And He said...
  15. Dartman

    Was Jesus the God of the Old Testament?

    None of these verses make the statement you claim. They state God's word is Him, and was with Him. It does NOT say "Jesus is the Father". The verses state the Father SENT Jesus, SPOKE to Jesus, was SEEN by Jesus. Those statements prove Jesus is NOT the Father. Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah...
  16. Dartman

    God instructs us to use REALITY as a proof of truth.

    The impact of God's instructions for us to use REALITY as a valid test of truth, GREATLY impacts the fictitious teachings regarding "immaterial beings", life during death, the nature of man, and the nature of God Himself.
  17. Dartman

    God instructs us to use REALITY as a proof of truth.

    Deut 18:21-22 And if thou say in thy heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken? 22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou...
  18. Dartman

    Jesus' own words.

    Coming up on 10 posts, and no one has addressed Jesus' own words..... other than to merely claim several texts CONTRADICT Jesus' own words... which is frightening, when you think about it.