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I dont want to get too far side tracked so Ill just come out with my point. This verse, as I understand it, is about the eventual Assyrian conquest of Israel and the dispersion following. See also Jeremiah 23 and then again the destruction of Assyria in isaiah. In any event there are many...

Specifically vs 2 and 3. Who do you believe that applies to? PS: I hope you all had a great Christmas.

Sorry Janx just saw this. I dont see it as a problem because I see it as being evident in scripture. I see throughout scripture it speaking to God foreordaining. His complete and utmost soveringty. I see scripture speaking to how nothing happens apart from his will and that the very...

FG2, Janx and I have completely derailed your OP and I am truly sorry.

I maybe misunderstanding but your asking how Christ revealed himself correct? Partially, fully, or only to the elect.

Yes and all of the rest of scripture. Scripture is always in accordance with itself. So if I affirm it in one part of scripture I affirm it in all others. Again specifically with Isa 6 I still believe "Make" means something. You havent given me any reason why it doesn't yet. Maybe this is...

I wouldn't necessarily disagree, I simply see Luke as being where Christ fully reveals to them all that He is. This is the moment where I believe they now have saving faith.

:thumbsup: I don't see it as a problem.

Not just Isa 6. I believe all of scripture proves the doctrine of election/reprobation.

Agreed. Both/and Yep. And God closed their eyes so they will reject Him. What is the difference than between Mat 13 and Luke 24? Why include Luke 24 if there was no difference? Please explain to me your understanding of Joel 3:2-8.

theyre not damned because God withheld salvation, they're damned because theyre sinful, as we all would be (damned) if God hadnt saved us. Now Ive read enough of your responses to know that you understand the reformed view better than that. I believe none are righteous no not one. Again...

I don’t believe Matthew 13 shows a shade of gray. I believe this knowledge is closer to an academic type knowledge and Luke 24 is a saving knowledge. Sure they do something, they reject him. That’s not what I asked. I asked : //Is it unconscionable to think that God will punish...

The word "Withheld" would indicate that they are seaking salvation, as Im sure you know we dont believe that any one seeks rightousness (TD)with out first being regenerated by the Holy Spirit (UE). So we do not see it as being withheld from them at all , but that it has only been offered to...

No. Your misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I’m saying. Im saying Judas was gaining a partial knowledge. Just as Im sure there was a time when you knew who Jesus was but did not know Him. This is the same Im saying of Judas, he was given knowledge of who Jesus was but did not know...

Did Christ know or not know that the Jews were going to reject Him? Obviously he did know because all the prophecy said they would. Wouldn’t he then, by your standards, be just as disingenuous, bringing them the gospel knowing full well that they would reject it? There was no possibility...

I’m assuming you primarily are regarding vs 16 and 17, since you mentioned being given the knowledge. I do not believe this is “saving” knowledge. I believe this is a partial enlightening. Jesus is only giving them a little knowledge primarily that He is the Messiah...

Thanks for your response Paul, First I never stated in the OP that Christ PAID for our sins. I was simply asking a question in regards to UA. I would always define the atonement as a covering of sins as we see that example throughout the entire old testament. The primary purpose of this OP...

I see the premise slightly unfair because it is framed to indicate that since Jesus said "I say these things so that you may be saved." He obviously meant they had free will to accept or reject him. Im saying they didn't. What I believe Hes saying is that if they believed he was who he said he...

Hahahaha you aren't kidding. His wedding reception dinner took 4 hours before the dancing. By that time the Russians had given this Irish boy too much Vodka and I thought I could dance.:blush:

I agree with Hedrick. Now Im new here so I don't want to over step my bounds but if I was having dinner or coffee with you all and we were discussing something I would address you by name or look straight at you. This is to be clear to everyone on whom Im addressing. It seems that much more...