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For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do...

Where I said "message" I meant sermon.

This is qualified, "men can be castigated", not "you castigate men". It is merely a suggestion that it happens and in my opinion it happens in the Church AND then I point out that they are also called tyrants by some for exercising leadership, that there is a split personality in perspectives...

I don't have a problem with "asking".

Well, it would seem that you have as much of a problem with the typical Father's Day message as I do, albeit for the opposite reason.

So we focus on the Spirit or the Law?

I'm not interpreting anything, she was clear in what she meant in post #3 and #5. She is talking about leadership specifically from husbands. Here she interprets the song "Lead Me" as a song directed at men. Here she specifies the details as she sees them in the song, a wife asking for her...

You have a habit of suggesting that every word I type is specifically a charge leveled at you. The OP is a charge to men to lead (especially in light of Father's Day), that is the context of this thread. Then you, yes specifically you suggest that husbands aren't to lead wives in Godliness, that...

Yes, when they came under the law. He also told Israel kill every man, women and child (and cattle) in Canaan when their sin had become full. He's going to do it again but not because people don't keep the law, instead it will because they rejected life in the Son.

Just out of curiosity, the OP is talking about leadership. Who is supposed to be led, and where or to what are they supposed to be led? I like how men can be castigated for not leading and then called tyrants for presuming to lead anyone anywhere. Which is it? ;)

Okay, now that the argument is inverted....by someone. What do you think the rules should be for modest dress? We can have a healthy and Godly respect for rules without being "rules focused". The law kills but the Spirit gives life, the Spirit makes it possible to have the "rules" written on...

The statement is qualified. Equating rule focused people with Pharisees is generally looked upon as a valid comparison. I think that "rules focused" was a defining feature of Pharisees, how about you?

So how can women encourage men to perform that very special role? I would hope that it would be by respecting it and honoring it, being thankful for anyone brave enough to actually "man-up" and do it. What I see more often not looks more like condemnation being heaped on because it is not being...

It's a cultural phenomenon, then there is that wonderful banner suggesting giving dad the "gift" of "Courageous" for Father's Day flying overhead right now. The one note symphony is getting old. I'm sorry for disagreeing here but when I turn on "Family Life Toady" or "Focus on the Family" I hear...

I listen to their radio show often, it sounds like an excellent resource.

Regarding this, JR I hope that you don't take my criticism personally, I would hope that you might be able to see the perspective of men here and understand the pervasiveness of the "man-up" message and the sensitivity that is developing around the subject. Men having women deliver the "man-up"...

So if there was a message to women to step up and respect and support their husbands even when they are struggling and especially when they are weak how would that be received on Mother's Day? Isn't that a message women need to hear? Maybe he's struggling to make ends meet, with frustration and...

Webster's definition of Objective: a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment> When I say objective, I mean not regarding...

Do you treat everyone you know exactly the same? Are the things that are appropriate for your husband appropriate for anyone else? We can't divide out the relationship aspect in that we are trying to please one person, God. And He is the epitome of objectivity, He himself is the standard and yet...

We are instructed to be modest, that lets us know that it is important to God. Now that we know that we should prayerfully consider how to be obedient to Him. We should query the Holy Spirit and find out what He wants from us and not be content with using our own standard or a cultural standard...