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Yep, that sort of situation troubles me. I understand that, human nature being what it is, these things will happen. But I have trouble reconciling this reality with the faith I feel I am supposed to have, in an omnipotent caring God who acts in this world primarily through the church.

Thanks RD. I guess the question of evil in the Church -- specifically by Church leadership -- feels different to me than the question of evil in the world generally. The way it feels different to me is that the Church is supposedly, in some sense, God's body here on earth. This is what sets it...

I am not looking for an argument; I actually want to understand the question I posed (see #1...). So, does anyone else have any insights to share?

That's not why, it's how.

Interesting discussion. But back to the original question, if anyone's interested: why would God ever allow his church to be debased, and his name dragged in the mud?

Interesting perspective; I like it. I'd argue though that free will is not and does not have to be an absolute. For example, the ability to make a particular choice exists within the boundaries of the reality that we each inhabit. I can't, for example, choose to make the sun and moon switch...

I must be missing something, then. Unless I'm misreading it, your post #8 seems to be about what people do, but my question is about why God allows it.

So, just so I'm clear, is your contention that God allows humans who are leading the church (his body on Earth) to lead it astray, specifically so that they will become better leaders?

Thanks to those who have already responded! Good food for thought. So far, unless I'm misreading anyone's replies, I think the only answer offered to the core question of "why doesn't God do something about it?" is that God holds our free will to be of utmost importance, even in this situation...

Yes, you're right, it is related to the problem of evil in the world generally. However, my question is a more narrow one: why would God allow evil perpetrated in God's own name? Let's say God will allow evil to happen in the world, even though as you're right it's an omnipresent paradox. Even...

I've been struggling for years with a theological problem that I can't quite see through. It's this: why would God ever allow evil to be done in God's name? There are a number of examples of actions by those purporting to act in God's name that seem positively evil. These include recent...

Yep, that's been my experience as well: a congregation that does not uphold these standards of behavior. Actions by certain church leaders that are in flagrant violation of this code are ignored by the other leaders. As a result, there's a disconnect between what's preached (e.g., the "code of...

I know a lot of people whose mind works best in the process of dialogue; they figure out difficult issues by discussing them with others. That's not really true for me. I've discovered over the years that my mind works best when pondering difficult issues quietly. Dialogue can still be very...

:amen: It's great that most posters to this thread seem to realize that we're dealing with real lives here, because honestly my first reaction to any glib self-righteous statement is to ignore it, or take issue with it. But I've really appreciated the honest opinions and sentiments of the...

I agree. (However, at least in my understanding, Christ forgives us IF we repent....) Can you explain how you interpret the verse differently, and why? What do you think the repeated reference to repentance (even 70x7 times) means? Just telling me what conclusion you reached, and making...

I'm finding these discussions very interesting and helpful. If anyone's been lurking & has an opinion, please feel free to join the thread! It seems the fairly unanimous opinion so far is that the response to my question is "yes, we must forgive others even if they do not repent for what...

I'm totally missing it too, then.

I don't question the seriousness of the requirement to forgive others. If it weren't serious, I wouldn't have started this thread. The question remains: is there a biblically based requirement that we forgive others who don't repent for what they did to us? I don't know if the verse you quoted...

Cubinity, you make some deep arguments that I'm going to give some serious thought to before responding. Just one quick reaction to your final point though: You're absolutely right about this. My motives for withholding forgiveness are not at all about justice; I'm not the judge. What I am...