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Science is Fact wrote: "So, when they say stuff like, 'Christmas, the day jesus was born!' I am disgusted that these pastors basically represent the christian community, and these are the type of people that give religion a bad name." You might be misunderstanding what you're hearing. I...

MrPolo wrote: "There is no rule that typology and theological understandings are ways of understanding God's truth. Even a look at the Church from the earliest times in the OT through the end of Scripture shows that man understood more and more about what varying prophecies meant. We should...

Trento said: "There was no complete Canon of scripture till the late 4th Century. Is it a pious tradition?" You offer no justification for that dating. While scholars often date a general consensus on the New Testament canon to the timeframe of the fourth and fifth centuries, the timing...

MrPolo wrote: "Now the thing about OT types and their NT ante-types, is that the NT version is the superior, fulfilled, improved version." Improved in what sense? There's nothing in the ark or Mary that would select for sinlessness as the form of improvement that would be involved. Would...

Asking for more miracles doesn't explain the ones we have already. And it's not as though past miracles are entirely inaccessible to us. Just as we believe reports about ancient wars, ancient political controversies, etc. on the basis of ancient testimony and archeological artifacts, for...

MrPolo writes: "It actually highlights the necessity of an authoritative Church to interpret both" People disagree about whether Jesus is the Messiah, whether He founded a church, the identity of that church, etc. Even among those who agree that Roman Catholicism has the authority it claims...

Trento wrote: "The same 4th-century Church whose judgment you are prepared to rely on unreservedly when it comes to the canon of Scripture already exhibited quite explicitly most of the Catholic doctrines and practices which Protestants have always rejected....Why suppose that the Holy...

matilda1991 wrote: "Retitle this thing 'let's bash Catholic Doctrine' and we can really have some fun." Roman Catholics aren't the only people who believe in praying to the dead and angels. And I doubt that you call it "bashing" when you disagree with people's behavior or beliefs. Should I...

JJM writes: "It's relevant because the reason prayer to the righteous dead in the OT was not happening was because Hell had yet to be harrowed." Not only are you assuming a particular interpretation of the harrowing without arguing for it, but you're also assuming, without argument, an...

JJM wrote: "However Catholics believe that Jesus is physically there in the Eucharist and I doubt you would say that they are not praying to Him. So that also seems to be a bad definition." The reason I would say that they're praying to Jesus if they speak to Jesus in the presence of the...

OrthodoxyUSA wrote: "I suppose then that the 'harrowing of hell' disturbs you, because you can not prove it scripturally?" I didn't suggest that one's view of prayers to the deceased and angels has to be "proven scripturally". To the contrary, I included a discussion of the patristic sources...

Catholic NE wrote: "You misunderstand the situation. Some of the Fathers thought that Mary had sinned, but there was not a consensus that thought so." The church fathers lived over a timeframe of several centuries. A belief could be widely accepted in one generation, but widely rejected in...

revrobor wrote: "In the Old Testament Jesus was not known to God's people. There is no Biblical justification for praying to anyone but our Heavenly Father." Jesus wasn't known by name. But there was familiarity with multiple persons within the Godhead. The prophets anticipated Jesus, for...

revrobor said: "While we all know Jesus and the Spirit are all God the fact is when Jesus was asked to teach the Disciples how to pray he made it clear that our prayers are to be addressed to our Heavenly Father." You're repeating your initial argument. I've already responded to it. You need...

boswd wrote: "First of all if you ever really studied the way Orthodox and High Anglican's view of Mary is, you would find they have very similar views of her." I said that groups like Eastern Orthodox and Copts don't have the same view as Roman Catholics. How is your response a refutation...

revrobor said: "When the Disciples ask Jesus to show them how to pray He said 'Our Father who is in Heaven....'. It is our Heavenly Father to whom we are to pray, not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, not dead people like the virgin Mary or who are called 'saints' by some churches." Jesus was...

OrthodoxyUSA wrote: "What does ‘alive in Christ’ mean to you?" Nothing that justifies praying to the deceased and angels. I live in the United States. There are Christians in China, but I don’t think that I can or should pray to them on the basis that they’re alive in Christ. And having...

The Biblical record gives us a lot of information about how the people of God in past ages lived in a large variety of circumstances. Prayer to God is mentioned often, whereas prayer to the deceased and angels isn't mentioned at all. There are hundreds of passages on prayer in the Bible...

boswd wrote: "And as pointed out in other threads the above statements are not all that much different than statements made by many of the most important names in the Reformation. But as always they are overlooked as is how other Christian Faiths have similiar views and similiar venerations...

boswd writes: "I really feel they are more obsessed with how they feel Catholics view Mary then Catholics are on Mary herself" Aside from all of the Roman Catholic prayers to Mary, Marian shrines, alleged Marian apparitions, veneration of Marian images, etc., we have many statements from...