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or this: Plasma Speaker / Singing Arc - Early Modulated Prototype - YouTube I've just now started to build one :)

Blasphemer! You shall burn eternally in hell! :clap:

OK ... I see your point with your last statement, but "omniscience only says" this, BECAUSE for us in a linear time frame it's impossible to stand before the exact same point of decision more than once ... But all this is slowly getting to philosophical for me ... I'm a technician ... I hate...

Well, last I checked, this was a discussion forum ... so I think I'm doing it because of the discussion :confused:

OK ... I think I understand you, but in this case we should perhaps define "free will" ... I was going with a definition like I can really do whatever I want within some physical boundaries (as: "I can wish to fly as much as I want, it won't happen (at least on earth)") If I get you're meaning...

nope :)

I don't think that there is such a thing as a god, I'm just arguing out of the assumption that there would be such a being ...

And that's exactly where I disagree :) I see omniscience not so much as "he knows what you WILL do", but more like: So as a god outside our linear time frame he can see and therefore know every decision you're going to make, but as long as he doesn't interfere it's still your decision to...

And I still disagree ... a god only being omniscient or omnipotent does NOT take away our free will, only when he decides to interfere (in any way) it's over ... So if god has a plan with a goal in his mind and works on executing it, all we have left is at most a very limited free will, but...

Not if god exists and has a plan ...

Yes he took away their ability to be healed (I'd have connected this with their "salvation", but that's not even necesarry), by taking away their choice of changing their minds and believe ... thus taking away their free will ... You can turn it any way you want, having a plan which should be...

Since in the christian religion the only way to be rewarded/saved is by believing, he took away their free will to accept him or not ... again confirming that his goals and free will are incompatible ... and on a side note again confirming that he is everything other than forgiving which is...

But it also clearly says, that intermarriage leads to turning away ... It seems you don't even have the free will to decide not being turned away ... So if A always leads to B and B always leads to C, then A always leads to C ... But then .. it never really was about the punishment ... it...

hmmm ... that's exactly what I was saying :confused: you say that the punishment is the result of turning away ... could be yes, but the turning away is already the result of intermarriage, at least according to this verse, so there is a direct line from intermarriage to punishment ... if the...

No, that's exactly what the verse says ... it says to not "intermarry" yourself or your children because then they turn away and he will destroy you ... So if my daughter marries an "unbeliever" she automatically will also turn one and I will be destroyed quickly ... according to this verse...

Well, I grant you a little wiggle room here, but I don't agree, "Either you do as I say, or you will be destroyed" is not much of "free will" ... and coercing one party to not grant the wish of the second party is the same as directly refusing free will to said second party, directly or...

But even forgetting the death thread, he in the same way also doesn't grant the "unbeliever" his/her free will... which you said he wouldn't interfere with ...

Would this work as an example: Deuteronomy 7:3-4 English Standard Version (ESV) 3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the...

Well, as far as I remember, there are a lot of stories in the bible which don't sound like "He doesn't force Himself on the unbeliever and doesn't interfere with their choices".

I actually like what you're saying, this sounds good and I could agree with such a picture of a god, just that this is not the same picture which is painted of god neither in the bible, nor in a lot of his followers ... and it still means you have no real free will after making the initial...