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  1. K

    Are we really just robots?

    A.W., I don't know if earlier theologians posited the idea of an "outside of time" God or not. If it was a given for you, it was an anomaly to me. It's what sci-fi shows are made of, God the Time Traveler, theology that logically says God has no need for election because He saw what you would do...
  2. K

    Are we really just robots?

    Thank you for taking the time to listen/transcribe, Moonbeam. I take it you agree with Lanning. I have a difficult time, however, with his statement that "The reason that I say what I do, is not because I am in charge of that, but that that comes from God. He’s sovereign, He’s Jehovah, over even...
  3. K

    Are we really just robots?

    Don_Maurer, thanks for your post. Your "No True Scot" fallacy aside, my adherence to Calvinism is not the issue here. As for the other items you mentioned: Original sin as a "setup" is echoed by Calvin himself in Book III, Ch 23, at 2232. On putting on shoes, Lanning (sermonaudio.com...
  4. K

    Are we really just robots?

    StephanieSomer, I can go with "it's a mystery" for several concepts found in the Bible. On Arminianism vs. Calvinism, I find Calvinism to be far more biblical and reasonable. But the issue that I wanted to discuss here is sovereignty in election and reprobation and control to the extent that...
  5. K

    Are we really just robots?

    After reading these posts, and with a little thought, I came up with the following: 1. Sproul is right. We have free agency, and the ability to make day-to-day decisions. We do not have free will. Basically this amounts to passive reprobation. 2. Free will is officially defined as the ability...
  6. K

    Are we really just robots?

    StephanieSomer...twin1954...show me how control is not inversely proportional to a relationship. Show me how total responsibility for election would not by the same logic apply to total responsibility for reprobation. I have seen no other theories advanced than what I have noted above. Skala...
  7. K

    Are we really just robots?

    -- But "I don't know" is rather weak when I've offered several other "theories" on this. We can throw our hands in the air after a thorough discussion, yes? -- Responsible for, guilty of, I suppose. Is that how you would define it? -- Calvinism asserts that we do not have free will. We are...
  8. K

    Are we really just robots?

    Skala, Trying to understand how God works (ie, How God is God) is a bit like a 2 dimensional person trying to understand 3 dimensions: -- "It's a mystery," in other words. -God has decreed in Himself from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and...
  9. K

    Are we really just robots?

    The way I see it, these are the options: - A will within a will (Clark) - Middle knowledge (Molinism) - Active election with passive and sometimes active reprobation (kind of my own theory) - No free will but free agency (Sproul) - God exists outside of time (Lutheran I think) - And "it's a...
  10. K

    Are we really just robots?

    I think it was Clark who advocated a "will within a will" for both the elect and the reprobate. The problem for either side is that God's control of synapses and neurons to push one into behavior that is either righteous or sinful, makes God an accomplice in both. For the elect, Arminians would...
  11. K

    Are we really just robots?

    This is a dichotomy I don't understand, St_Worm2. Lots of verses to go to stating that God is in COMPLETE control of His creation. Therefore, when Jesus says, "depart from me, for I never knew you" -- oh yes you did, Jesus! Control is inversely proportional to relationship here. Here's the...
  12. K

    Are we really just robots?

    As a Calvinist, I've seen the "proof texts" that show God being intimately in control over both the believer and the unbeliever. But I would think that control of every facet of man's belief and actions, right down to the firing of the synapses that cause certain behavior and thoughts, would...
  13. K

    Old Testament vs. Predestination

    Dale, one of the reasons I stopped attending the Baptist church I was at, was that I didn't want to engage in debates with them that might have them leaving their church. I liked them, no, loved them, and we needed to focus on fellowship and what we held in common, rather than getting them all...
  14. K

    About babies

    It is completely up to God as to who goes to heaven and who does not. The Christian today is very similar to the Israelite of the Old Testament who loved God and obeyed his law. The baby born to the Christian family is grafted into Christ in the covenant of baptism the same way as babies were...
  15. K

    God creates those doomed for hell?

    Yes, full knowledge. The thing is, you're not off the hook if you have free will and He still has full knowledge. Now He not only knows what you will choose, your free will makes Him make you choose! This is resolvable if and only if we are guilty to start. Otherwise you must deny Hell or...
  16. K

    Asking a mature Calvinist elder out there...

    I think you can have a healthy relationship with the AoG IF you take things with a sense of humor and jut love the people you're with. In turn, they have to do the same with you. There is no harm at all in learning about other faiths. I solidified my own when I spent a couple years at a 1-point...
  17. K

    This bugs me...the chosen people

    Like a teacher asking for volunteers!? What if no one volunteers? The first one in that class volunteered for a little while, but then decided to quit. And passed that non-volunteerism to everyone following him. That's about as far as I'll go with this anthropomorphism, because salvation as...
  18. K

    Questions about Predestination

    I don't have any argument with your last statement because this is what Calvinists believe. Those who are united with Christ, are the elect. I'm not familiar with the "doctrine of Union with Christ" as you put it. Where is this doctrine found? How is it weak? You have just affirmed payment...
  19. K

    Questions about Predestination

    Exodus is a fairly large book, so if you could elaborate as to which verse(s) you'd like me to address, I would appreciate it. As for Joshua, chapter 24:15 is a popular verse, but it supports Calvinism more than it does Arminianism. "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for...
  20. K

    Questions about Predestination

    So Arminianism's sovereignty is more sovereign than Calvinism's sovereignty, by taking away God's sovereignty and "endowing" humanity with it. Less sovereignty is more sovereignty. Now THAT is an amazing statement!