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My thoughts on predestination are as follows. First, I do not personally believe that God has revealed Himself to me such that I could believe some humans were born to be damned. I believe humans are different than animals. The best way of showing this is as follows. Minerals – no life...

I apologize if you felt that I attacked your character. When I said “To you I say all those same things. They are just as sophistic directed at you as they are directed at me.” I was suggesting that your comments about me were fallacious and that saying those things back to you would also be...

This seems to be at least the third edit of your response to me, but I do not see any engagement with what I suggest. In truth I would rather you engage the “How Wide the Divide?” There are things that could be addressed in that thread. In this thread we have me explaining how I can hold a...

I am absolutely long winded. Perhaps it was hot air to you. But if you are unable to see that Todd Compton interpreted the accounts he delivered with his own words and organization of the data, then you should search for someone you respect (probably not me) and who disagrees with you...

You have not remotely engaged the positions I have put forth. AND I am unaware of the great lengths gone to in order to cover up LDS history perhaps you should enlighten me. Most of the things used to attack the church were preserved by the church. On the other hand the Early Church readily...

The book I am referring too is Restoration of the Divine Church. It was actually published in 1960. I am not aware of any literature BEFORE this that suggested that non-LDS Christianity was moving towards LDS Christianity. Charity, TOm

If by this you mean that neither of these men produced a viable explanation as to how they could start a new church, then I totally agree with you. Luther set out to perform a necessary work in reforming the Catholic Church, but when he schismed from her, he cut off his only possible link to...

Well, I have actually looked at the recorded history. I have looked at the history shared by critics of the church. And I have looked at the history as it is presented to me on Sunday. I will not tell you that they are identical, but I will radically disagree with you when it comes to which...

I agree that Irenaeus was solidly a fan of creation ex nihilo. I will not even dogmatically declare that Tatian (pre-Irenaeus post Justin) did not embrace creation ex nihilo (Gerard May does not believe Tatian believed in creation ex nihilo, but this comes from an assumption of a slightly later...

I believe it was suggested that Billy Graham was said by some to have prophesied in a way designed to enlighten a body of Christians. This would not have been acceptable even remotely 200 years ago. I do not have immediate examples in my mind (beyond the lesser movement associated with...

There was a thread that mentioned these religions a few months ago on another board so I though I would provide religions that call their leader a prophet. I do not suggest that there are significant movements within non-LDS Christianity toward recognizing the office of a prophet, and that...

Here are the words from Justin Martyr and Clement of Rome. Justin Martyr, 1 Apology 59: [/size] Here is a little from Clement of Rome. These are Blake Ostler’s words. Here is the more full passage from Clement of Rome. Now I do not claim to be a Greek scholar, strong or...

I am not sure OFFICE is used, but here are three churches that claim either a chief apostle at their head or a prophet. The Iglesia ni Cristo church definitely had at least one man who claimed to be “the prophet.” The Light of the World has men who hold the office of Apostle and it was...

I agree with ever word you just wrote. Furthermore, one who believes in both the omnibenevolence and SOVEREIGNTY of God I think must find truth in your statement. Charity, TOm

I am totally unaware of this. So is Gerard May, a protestant who has written probably the most thorough analysis of the origins of this doctrine. Please show me. Clement of Rome who predates Ignatius embraced creation through forming of matter. Justin Martyr who predates the introduction...

Is the CoJCoLDS developing in ways that non-LDS Christians would likely suggest bring it closer to their version of “Biblical Christianity?” I would say yes. In the recent Joseph Smith conference a point was made that I have been suggesting for a few years. When the LDS ran from those...

Oh my! You did know that I would be reading this didn't you. Charity, TOm

Casipeia, I have not often seen a story about leaving the CoJCoLDS that was for me both as real and as powerful as the one you shared. I wish I had both the proximity and the capacity to love enough to make it ok. Christ surely does and that which is impossible for humans to do, is possible...

It has been my experience that former LDS more frequently speak of the burdens being lifted because they no longer feel they must EARN their salvation. And this of course in my opinion is a mistaken belief. If you are instead suggesting that ones sins are not forgiven through Christ until one...