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That implies that death was possible in the pre-fall Eden. Which means, God built death into the very fabric of creation. Separation from God was achieved without physical death. Meaning, the term "death" in Genesis 2 would be speaking of spiritual, not physical, death. This makes the idea...

Why would evolution disprove God?

There are so many biblical problems with "no death before the fall", I can hardly believe it's still core YEC theology. It's like they're giving us a gift or something. For instance: Why is there a "tree of life" if there is no death? Why does the threat of death mean anything to Adam if...

Is Hovind Jesus? If not, then I'm right.

He is quite clever with his interpretive skills.

Do you even know me?

I'm not rejoicing in his situation. I find it sad when any public Christian is placed in an illegal or embarrassing situation - it harms the credibility of every Christian. We are all sinners, I am certainly not in any position to be self-righteous. However, the problem is when you try to insist...

The temple tax was for atonement, and of course the sinless Jesus hardly needed to pay an atonement tax. However, do notice that Jesus had Peter pay the tax anyway "to not offend them" - in other words, there are more important things in the kingdom that money, and it's better to pay the tax...

First, let's get this out of the way - Hovind's legal problems have no bearing on his science discussion. However, they do speak volumes about his character, and they say something about his respect for the bible (and his commitment to literalism). First, was he biblically justified in his...

Kent Hovind's views on tax law make me feel comfort that even some YEC's admit they take some of the bible metaphorically.

Hope you had a good holiday - I've been insanely busy until now, finally calming down a bit now that family has left. If I didn't feel very strongly that evolution is true and literal creationism was a misinterpretation of scripture, then I would not be in this discussion. As to why we don't...

I give God all the glory, and all the credit. So do all TE's. Some Christians want to grant so much higher importance to the supernatural that they end up discrediting the natural. Either evolution is natural and every bit a part of God's intentional creation as weather patterns, or God is not...

Well then obviously, I wasn't talking to you. There are plenty of people who hold to a literal Genesis and a young earth who don't agree with you, though. I get told quite often that if evolution is true then it means God had nothing to do with it...which is very curious to me. Yours is the more...

If you don't give him credit for both then you're shrinking His influence. If you can't accept that God could work through common descent and evolution then you also cannot accept that God works through other natural phenomena like weather patterns or childbirth or quantum physics. The...

My question is this: do you guys (YECs, mostly) understand that by undermining the natural world you are demeaning more than 99.9% of God's creative effort? And reducing the things that God is responsible for?

Mark, sometimes the pure definitions and the political ones differ. I am unabashedly a creationist; I believe fully that God created all things and is active in creation. I absolutely hold to the existence of an intelligent designer - all things that exist are intentional and purposeful...

This is true. What is the harder assumption to make -that the tree of life indicates death was possible in Eden without it, or that Cain was referring to "future relatives" when he was scared of being killed after his banishment?

In light of this revelation, you might want to reconsider your original statement: Most among us have thought this through. A lot. Many of us came from a YEC/OEC background (I was a strong OEC most of my life), and it's the study - both from a biblical and scientific perspective - that has...

Just as you CAN "eat your cake and have it too", you can accept common descent and still accept the theological thrust of the creation story. Mark, you are as inflammatory as anybody on the other side. It's not my purpose to put anybody down; I want to point out the common ground between us...