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Hi "Man", Lond time no post................ Your premise seems sound, but I wonder why Paul gives the second beast, if indeed the MOS is, precidense without even mentioning the first beast who is also destroyed together with the second beast at Christ's postrib return? Only a couple places...

Hi BW, There is only one return with and for His saints......................... 2 Thess 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, KJV 1 Thess 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in...

Hi again Josh, Here is a statement by Spurgeon.............................. "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me." — John 6:37 This declaration involves the doctrine of election: there are some whom the Father gave to Christ. It involves the doctrine of effectual calling...

Hi Josh, I appreciate your disertation on the 10 Virgins. But I must disagree. The bride is not complete until the last generation of saints go thru the GT. Our salvation at present is only a downpayment. We are not completeley delivered or saved until the SC. Vacation does not start with...

Hi TF, You have everything right except the pretrib thingy. The very texts you quoted are about the resurrection of the church at the one and only SC after the trib of those days. There is no partial bride and then a completed bride 3 1/2 years later. One body, One Lord and one resurrection...

SK, These spirits were most likely fallen angels of Noah's day who were sent to Tartartus. They had no idea what had transpired on earth. Jesus did not preach the gospel to them, but proclaimed His victory as the "seed of the woman" from Gen 3:15 imo. Frankie PS it is said that a third fell...

Hi Manasseh and Mike, I have to admit that I thought this thread would end in stalemate. But both of you have been persistent and patient with me which I humbly thankyou both. I have come to learn that it is hardest to "unlearn" something you have been taught, than learning the truth with no...

TF, All of ECC was from the perspective of man perceiving what happpens "under the Sun" We who are alive do not know what happens after life passes. Those that die in body don't know what is goning on "under the Sun". Christ is the only glorified man that has ascended into the...

Mike, The JW's do exactly what you agree to. Of course He was telling him "today". What other day did they have left? If you read only the Grk, you would not come up with that opinion imo. It seems obvioust that you Manasseh and I will not agree on this theme, and only death will prove...

All, I really appreciate all who have replied on this thread, even if we still disagree. I by no means am saying I am right and others are wrong. What I am saying is that I see conflict from some Ot texts and the NT texts. I believe the NT explains or makes clear the OT. And the OT authors...

Manasseh, Both just and unjust are raised on the same last day (Jn 12:48) The first resurrection is only for saints and is in contrast to the rest of the dead who are the wicked who die at Armageddon and aren't raised till the end of the 1000. Dan 12 shows no gap between the just and...

Mike, I can't believe you do not see that man's spirit is not more than breath............. Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, (breath) that we are the children of God: KJV 1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your...

Thx Mike, Great post and some good points and quotes. But we need to get thru the rest of Nt quotes and see which holds water imo. And I cannot agree that Paul wanted to die and not finish his ministry if he had HIS OWN CHOICE. We are all going to die and in God's timing. And remember Paul...

Thx for your view Manasseh, Though I don't agree with your Jn 5 speech. The voice of the Lord will call both groups at one time called the "hour is coming". No 1000 years in between is even alluded to unless you insert Rev 20 into the mix which wass not written yet. Have you heard of...

I didn't think it needed re-iterating, but thx, Frankie:amen:

................ Nothing like being vague Mikey....................... There is no neutral side here. What is your view or opinion? Thx, Frankie

Manasseh, I don't agree that this gathering by the angels shoots forward to the coming resurrection at the SC. Why? Because no one had risen from the dead at this juncture. Both men simply died...................one carried by angels to AB and one was buried. The rich man appeals to ABE...

thx kal, but I think our judgment is after the SC which is premill. The saints are judged for rewards, and not punishment. Too many texts to quote, but I'm sure you know them...............:) Frankie

All, It seems we have some that agree with soul sleep and some that agree with me that we are conscious after death of the body. As they say, the proof is in the pudding............. Most beleivers in soul sleep have appealed to OT scriptures and by them alone, it seems that soul sleep is...

kal, you haven't said what you believe? Soul consciousness after the body dies or soul unconsciousnes till the resurrection. If the latter, then why did Paul consider it gain to die if he would not be with Christ? He says it would be far better? Frankie