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Search results

  1. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Once again you are adding your extra view to the text. OK. So, if they are separated, then that must mean that there was a judgement made to say weather they went to heaven or hades. Where is this judgement done? Is it the GWT? Matthew 25:31-46 says that everyone is gathered at the same time...
  2. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    I agree.
  3. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    But you believe that when we die, we are raised and judged? If so, where are we judged?
  4. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    The sign of the Son of Man will be unexpected by the unbelieving world. That is exactly Jesus’ point. But that does not redefine “watching” as waiting for a rapture. In Matthew 24, the ones who are watching are not surprised, because Jesus has just given them specific signs to watch for (vv...
  5. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    In Matthew 24:42–44, the thief imagery explains suddenness and unexpected timing, not a resurrection/rapture. Jesus’ point is that His coming will be unexpected, so His followers must be spiritually ready at all times. The illustration does not say the household is removed before the thief...
  6. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    “Watching” in Jesus’ teaching is never defined as waiting for a resurrection/rapture event. In Matthew 24 and Luke 21, watching means being spiritually alert, faithful, and obedient in the face of deception, persecution, and danger, so that believers are not caught unprepared. In the same...
  7. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    I actually agree with you on an important point: In Matthew 24 and Luke 17, the ones who are “taken” are taken to death, not rescued. Luke 17:37 makes that explicit, “where the body is, there the vultures will gather.” That supports my point that “taken” does not mean rapture. Where we still...
  8. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    What did you think of the explanation I gave for Matthew 24?
  9. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Revelation 3:10 does not teach a resurrection or rapture event. It is a promise of God’s protection through trials, not removal from the earth. The phrase “keep you from the hour of temptation” refers to spiritual preservation, as the church in Philadelphia was faithful and would not fall into...
  10. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Whether you call it “pre-trib” or “pre-70th week,” the problem is the same: the text never states such a removal. On this point, I actually agree with you. Revelation 20:4-6 identifies the first resurrection as the resurrection of the martyrs only to reign with Christ during the millennium. The...
  11. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Please read post number 13. I said "So, when does anyone rise before the last day? Only in the case of the martyrs. Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of an early resurrection for those who are killed for their faith." So, there is a resurrection of the martyrs before the last day. These are the only...
  12. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    You’re correct that Revelation 6:9 and 7:9–14 say “white robes,” not “fine linen.” But Revelation 19:8 explicitly says the Bride is given fine linen, bright and clean, and the text makes clear this represents righteous deeds. The white robes of the martyrs in 6:9 and 7:9–14 are the same idea...
  13. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Nothing in 1 Thessalonians 5 introduces a rapture or a separate resurrection. Paul does not need to repeat the phrase “last day” in 1 Thes 5 for the concept to be present because we know that everyone is judged on the last day. The day of judgement. Jesus died on the cross so that we would not...
  14. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    "9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing." 1 Thes 5:9-11 1 Thes 5:9-11...
  15. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    OK. I guess Jesus was wrong. Or maybe you are reading too much into the text. Each to their own. I would rather believe what Jesus said. The dead believers are raised on the last day. Not before in a special rapture.
  16. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    1 Thes 5:9-11 simply says that those whom He has chosen are not appointed to condemnation on the last day because we have security in what Jesus did on the cross. So, we live with Him today and forevermore. Nothing about rapture in that unless you want to read into more than what the text is...
  17. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    Correct. The living are not raised until the last day. Only the martyrs are raised first (Rev 20). As in 1 Thes 4, the dead rise first (the martyrs), which is the first resurrection in Rev 20. No other person, believe or non-believer, alive or dead is raised. As Jesus said, believers are raised...
  18. 1Tonne

    The sequence of events

    People who believe in an early rapture, that is, the snatching up of believers either before, during or straight after the Tribulation, often point to 1 Thessalonians 4:15–18. They read it as teaching that the dead in Christ rise first to meet with Christ, and then immediately afterwards, those...
  19. 1Tonne

    Kirk Cameron Takes Heat for His Annihilationist View on Hell

    Once again, "their" worm if burned would die. To get around this you stretch what Jesus said to say that the worm has offspring, and it is the offspring that lives forever. Did the offspring grow legs and run to get away from the flames? LOL Context does matter. That is why I pull you up on...
  20. 1Tonne

    Kirk Cameron Takes Heat for His Annihilationist View on Hell

    You’re right that many passages use worms in connection with physical decay and death. No one disputes that worms literally consume bodies in the grave. But that actually strengthens, not weakens, the point about imagery and context. Those Job and Isaiah passages are describing what happens to...
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