How do Christians reconcile the failure of prophesies

Zoii said:

So since they report on issues like climate change and that Trump supporters stormed the capitol and that some falsely pastors prophesied Trump win and a Mid term Republican whitewash - you're saying that the NYT has incorrected reported on all of that. Well all I can say is what they reported is supported by fact.

You see my point is, just because NYT reported it, doesn't necessitate that what they had to say was untrue as you suggest.

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How did they do on the Russia, Russia conspiracy OR Hunters laptop or any number of other items that are reported on the basis of their liberal viewpoint?

It's not just the New York Times, many Christian voices are voicing concern like this vid, 2020 the Terrible Year for the Prophets:

Zoii said:

So you're argument is that Trump is president and the Republicans swept to power....which was the basis of the NYT reported prophesies. You see its not enough to say people know nothing about prophesies - the people of those churches whose pastors so strongly prophesied events like Trump winning or doomsday - they sure thought they knew all about prophesies - and like you, probably have a hard time reconciling it was all nonsense.

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I have no idea how you came to the conclusion what I believe about trump and the republicans???
The problem I have with calling these "prophecies" is that nowhere in the NT does the gift "prophecy" refer to "predicting" anything. NT prophecy is merely comfort, edification, and exhortation. What people ignorantly refer to as prophecy is actually the gift "word of wisdom." The word of wisdom is the perception of information from the mind of God that cannot be perceived by natural means. That would include predictions concerning the future.
So as I said, with so much misinformation fogging the subject, there is no use in even discussing the topic. That is the nonsense I have a hard time discussing.

essentialsaltes said:

Roger Stone is prophesied to save the United States.

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Roger Stone came across to me as someone who knew how to manipulate the media, to exaggerate and lie about others to get headlines, and then ignore whether it was true or not, because publicity mattered more than content. It is all about making the opposition evil and your side good.

This approach is not the Lords way.
Why did churches become interested in law and political action, when Jesus preached meekness, showing ones light by good works, and simply being the salt in a lost world?

The prosperity gospel and the tax breaks churches get gives a massive incentive to support those who defend undeclared income and non-accountable use to charity giving as a real reason why the leaders of this movement want conservative politicians who will defend and protect their income from prying eyes. And the leadership show no problem in declaring to talk against them is bringing judgement on oneself from God. Move on a few hundred years and you get RCC church and the Spanish Inquisition.

The founding of the USA was by people who where running away from this persecution to set up their own communities to live as they choose.
The love of money is the root of all evil...a parable in the making,

God bless you

Zoii said:

Wow he doesn't hold back on his condemnation of the prophetic and charismatic Christian movements; rightly highlighting them all to be liars and charlatans.

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Climate change argument - young people will die from climate change - the truth is our world is heading for a crisis because we are too good at keeping the population alive to 70+. Climate change is a consequence of this success.

The hope is our technology and understanding with new sources of energy will solve this. But you cannot close down a society to bring it about, because you destroy the very means of a solution.

Prophets are jumping on the emotional bandwagon, the left are evil and we are good. The true prophets are declaring we are saved through Jesus and called to exercise love for our fellow man. There is no greater point in history were we could actually solve climate change and truly understand what and how it can be done. But will the youth rise to this challenge like previous generations rose to fight wars against unstoppable evil tyrannies?

God bless you

SavedByGrace3 said:

The problem I have with calling these "prophecies" is that nowhere in the NT does the gift "prophecy" refer to "predicting" anything.

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In those days some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) (Acts 11:27-28)

lismore said:

In those days some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.) (Acts 11:27-28)

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Thanks, Lismore... good to see you again (dids). The gift utilized by Agabus was the word of wisdom. It may have been delivered via prophecy, or not. The simple prophetic gift of prophecy does not include anything beyond comforting, edification, and exhortation.

Belief in Yahweh doesn’t mean the dispense of common sense and wisdom. Religion is a gimmick. You don’t have to be right to make it work. All you need is belief, a compelling message, and a gullible audience and you’re golden.

They believe in the person more than Yah. That’s why they’re deceived. Whatever you idolize becomes your god. I saw an investigative report a few years ago. They found trash bags full of unread prayer requests sent to a ministry. They removed the check and tossed the rest.

Pivoting is difficult. You’ve gotta admit you’ve been duped and you’re not as smart as you thought. Most of them are conmen. If you tune in “looking for a word” you’re more likely to validate their comments than if you scrutinized them and reserved judgment.

Many train in NLP, public speaking, sales, and behavioral conditioning. They know what buttons to push and their personalities are magnetic. The way you combat it is two-fold. Study the word and the counterfeit. Learn his lingo and read the body language. Examine movements that were false. What was their hook? Who did they target? There’s always a mark. A preferred type who’s susceptible to the message.

~bella

Zoii said:

According to the NY Times, the USA has seen a dramatic rise in evangelical preachers making prophesies, particularly concerning the political affairs of Trump and the republican party.

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Zoii said:

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What I wonder: Why do those preachers care to make prophesies?

Zoii said:

According to the NY Times, the USA has seen a dramatic rise in evangelical preachers making prophesies, particularly concerning the political affairs of Trump and the republican party.

Prophesies are not new, of course, with doomsday prophesy groups, almost exclusively Christian, failing to see the world end on the predicted date.

In the last ten years, prophesies have emerged focussed on the the re-election of Donald Trump and the so called red wave which would see the Democrats swept from power. Now I am not from USA so couldn't care less about their politics. I'm more interested to know how those who believe prophesies, reconcile their faith in both their religion and their preacher, when the prophesy does not come to pass.

Christian Prophets Are on the Rise. What Happens When They’re Wrong? (Published 2021)

They are stars within one of the fastest-growing corners of American Christianity. Now, their movement is in crisis.

www.nytimes.com

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What's there to "reconcile," Zoii? Are you referring to prophecy about Tyre, or **cough, cough** so-called modern prophecy about Trump?

Both are problems for the modern Christian to have to hack through, of course, but the nature of one isn't necessarily of the same nature as the other.

Red Gold said:

What I wonder: Why do those preachers care to make prophesies?

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Because it's what people want to hear, they can gain power, popularity and property through telling people whatever their sin nature wants to hear:

For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3)

The Lord calls the church to tell people what they need to hear, the modern church by and large tells people what they want to hear. It's a sign of the Last Days and that Lord Jesus is coming back soon. God Bless

I deal with it by not being a Charismatic or whatever type of person is doing/believing this stuff. I don't mean this to call anyone out here, since I don't know any of you people, but any time anyone seems to be searching for prophecies to believe in or miracles to placate themselves with, it strikes me that this is a person who is very immature in their faith and probably living off the pseudo-spiritual 'high' they can feel by being a part of the knowing group which has the inside information about XYZ happening (gnosticism, anyone?). I don't think that sort of attitude or approach to religion is helpful to anyone anywhere. It is enough to struggle in prayer and fasting, and leave anyone who calls themselves a prophet to their prophesying, secure that you've got your path to follow, and everything meant to entice like some shyster's 'prophecy' is best avoided as a distraction from that path.

dzheremi said:

I deal with it by not being a Charismatic or whatever type of person is doing/believing this stuff. I don't mean this to call anyone out here, since I don't know any of you people, but any time anyone seems to be searching for prophecies to believe in or miracles to placate themselves with, it strikes me that this is a person who is very immature in their faith and probably living off the pseudo-spiritual 'high' they can feel by being a part of the knowing group which has the inside information about XYZ happening (gnosticism, anyone?). I don't think that sort of attitude or approach to religion is helpful to anyone anywhere. It is enough to struggle in prayer and fasting, and leave anyone who calls themselves a prophet to their prophesying, secure that you've got your path to follow, and everything meant to entice like some shyster's 'prophecy' is best avoided as a distraction from that path.

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Hello! I would also bring to your attention this bible verse: “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21. God Bless

dzheremi said:

I deal with it by not being a Charismatic or whatever type of person is doing/believing this stuff. I don't mean this to call anyone out here, since I don't know any of you people, but any time anyone seems to be searching for prophecies to believe in or miracles to placate themselves with, it strikes me that this is a person who is very immature in their faith and probably living off the pseudo-spiritual 'high' they can feel by being a part of the knowing group which has the inside information about XYZ happening (gnosticism, anyone?). I don't think that sort of attitude or approach to religion is helpful to anyone anywhere. It is enough to struggle in prayer and fasting, and leave anyone who calls themselves a prophet to their prophesying, secure that you've got your path to follow, and everything meant to entice like some shyster's 'prophecy' is best avoided as a distraction from that path.

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Actually spiritual gifts, including prophecy, are given to us by God to comfort us. Have a look at 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14.
Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, and Evangelists are intended for the work of the ministry. That is God's plan for us. These ministries and gifts are used by God

Ephesians 4:11-12
11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

These are all gifts and ministry gifts are God's way of achieving maturity of the body. It is not immature to do and seek God's methods and plan.

Romans 12:5-8
5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7. Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
8. Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

The gifts are also God's way of creating equity in the body, so all the self declared "smart people" do not take over and lord it over the rest.

1 Corinthians 12:24-25
24. For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
25. That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Ephesians 4:11-16
11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.



So as for me, despite the problems we see, I will stick with God's plan. Give me a poor prophet over a prideful intellectual any day!

lismore said:

Hello! I would also bring to your attention this bible verse: “Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil.” 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21. God Bless

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I agree completely. We do this with any claimed prophecy. The point is that we do not look for them or assume that they have/will/should come to us. So when someone comes saying that they've received this or that, it is tested against what is already accepted, same as it has always been.

I assume that the type of people (the 'failed prophets', if we can call them that) referenced in the OP aren't even doing that, since if they were, the problem of failed prophecies would get nipped in the bud pretty quickly. They do not bring their prophecies before the Church to be examined and possibly rejected, but instead announce them with a kind of self-assuredness that tells you something of their true origin (in the ego of the prophesier, rather than true revelation from God).