Christian = otherworldly?

Are you at home on this planet?


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Mannabar

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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.
 

Paidiske

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Alien to the planet? No. We came to be on this planet, and in its original state both we and the planet were completely good.

But we live in a world where humanity is fallen, and sinful, and it's that fallen/sinful system or society to which Christians consider themselves alien. We see ourselves as participating in the reign of God, a radical alternative to that fallen system, which will eventually completely overcome and replace that fallen system.

I hope I've put that in a way which makes sense?
 
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timewerx

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Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians?

What I believe as a Christian is that the meek will inherit the Earth. Meek as opposed to people who are accountable for the Earth's destruction. That is Biblical teaching.

I suppose if were to be judged as meek then Earth will be my home. Otherwise, I'd be eradicated at some point in the future in an not so pleasant manner.

It doesn't mean I'll be stuck here on Earth for eternity. You are free to go as you please, visit other worlds perhaps but when I need to go home, it will always be Earth. Though I'm a huge fan of space exploration, I suppose my heart will always be here. Earth will be beautiful again when things that corrupt has been eliminated.

Many times, the meaning of "world" or "cosmos" in the Bible doesn't always literally mean Earth or the Universe. Often times, it means the corrupt system in the world that governs everyone.

So when the Bible says, "we don't belong in the world" means we do not partake in the corrupt system or things that corrupt this world or this planet.

Christianity is supposed to be a "green religion", environment-friendly and sustainable. Ironically, the vast majority of Christians don't see it that way and would prefer to adopt the "corrupted perspective" to greedily acquire without minding the consequences.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.
As Christians we are set apart even though we are inclusive. Though the US has freedom of religion, there is persecution in other countries towards those who follow Christ. So they are hated. This has nothing to do with aliens. Here is a good link that lays out several verses in scripture.
25 Bible Verses About Being Set Apart (ESV) - RANKED
Blessings
 
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ViaCrucis

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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.

The word "world" in Modern English lacks a lot of the nuance and complexity that it used to have, and this is even more true when it is used to translate some Greek words.

In John 15:19 the word used that is translated as "world" is κόσμος (kosmos), when we see "world" in English translations of the New Testament, this is most commonly the word being translated. This word requires us to do some digging however. In Greek the word kosmos literally means "order" or "arrangement". Among the very ancient Greek philosophers this is the word they used to describe the order or arrangement of reality, and different philosophers had very different views about that. But through them the word kosmos came to be used to describe the "order" of what we would call the universe, or the world (as in the things we see here on earth, or when we look up into the sky, etc). But its precise meaning in a given conversation requires some context.

So, for example, the famous passage in John 3:16 that "God so loved the world" uses kosmos, here it's referring to God's love for His creation, and specifically His love of human persons. But, in the example of John 15:19 Jesus is using it to refer not to refer to the planet earth, or to speak of the general human population; but really means it in its sense of "order" or "arrangement", that is the present order of things, the current "world-system" we might say. The Roman Empire, sure, in the sense of Rome's imperial power and ambitions, but can just as well be speaking of the Jewish Zealots' hopes and ambitions of a liberated Jewish state. The word kosmos in this sense isn't referring to a single worldly power or system, but the general state of things where sin and death pervade, where men compete with men, where nations rise against nations, where people seek power and use violence, where there is all this sickness, suffering, death, etc.

So Jesus can also say "My kingdom is not of this kosmos" (John 18:36), by which He means that His kingdom--the way Jesus is King--is not like the way Caesar in Rome is emperor, or the way Herod is king, or the way Pilate is governor of Judea. Jesus is King in a radically different kind of way. Jesus wasn't interested in taking Herod's throne, or marching on Rome to install Himself as emperor--Jesus is King and the way He is King is as the One who suffers under Pilate and is crucified, who dieas, is buried (and who will rise again on the third day victorious over death, and who will take His Throne at the right hand of God the Father).

This world, that is, planet Earth, as well as the great big universe in which the earth is located, was made for us, and we were made for it.

But the way this world is should make us uncomfortable, as though we are aliens--strangers--in it. It's as though we allowed a robber, a strongman, to come into the house and now that strongman holds us hostage in our own home. But Christ has wrestled the strongman to the ground, and disarmed him, and now He is patching us up and also will restore the whole house back to its rightful condition.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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timf

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Satan sets the course of the world (Eph 2:2). These systems are defined by greed, vanity, fear, power, and lust.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

However, Christians are called to live and work in the world.

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
 
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drich0150

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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.

Yeah, that's a miss representation of scripture.
Jesus is not speaking just about Rome or roman oppression, but of everything in this world. while it did include Rome it was not limited to Rome as the Jews, even the priest rejected Christ and therefore also reject his followers:
Read you verse in it's complete context:
The World Hates the Disciples
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law:‘They hated me without reason.’
Again re-read verse 21 forward. Jesus was not speaking of Rome at all but to the priests/jews as he said he is other places in scripture (where the woman touched his garment and she was healed from persistent bleeding) had no business with the gentiles durning his ministry as he was there to call to god's chosen.

So yes if we follow Christ we reject the rules and principalities of this world IE we reject popular culture and popular morality.

Why do you think Christians stand in opposition of so many popular movements like lgbt or minor attracted people?

Satan runs this world not hell. and we are in direct opposition to him and his people.
 
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NinjaPirate777

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We are made of clay with the spirit of God breathed into us. That makes the world, earth, a part of what we are. As that is God's will, we should embrace that as part of our nature. That said, God lets the bad guys run the world until He returns in Glory. If you look at what is sinful and shameful in the Bible you will find it is accepted with pride by many of those who engage in that sin these days. If you speak out against it you can face legal repercussions. Some say that is why the US is having trouble winning wars these days.

Our call as Christians is boots on the ground. It is helping the less fortunate with food, shelter and prayer. Wiliam Booth had a vision about this.

William Booth's Vision of the Lost - YouTube
 
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drich0150

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We are made of clay with the spirit of God breathed into us. That makes the world, earth, a part of what we are. As that is God's will, we should embrace that as part of our nature. That said, God lets the bad guys run the world until He returns in Glory. If you look at what is sinful and shameful in the Bible you will find it is accepted with pride by many of those who engage in that sin these days. If you speak out against it you can face legal repercussions. Some say that is why the US is having trouble winning wars these days.

Our call as Christians is boots on the ground. It is helping the less fortunate with food, shelter and prayer. Wiliam Booth had a vision about this.

William Booth's Vision of the Lost - YouTube
are you responding to my post?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.
.... all is I can say is, "I come in peace! ... ... ... Ain't that right, Gort?"
 
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NinjaPirate777

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are you responding to my post?
I was responding to the idea Christians are otherworldly. We are specifically not otherworldly. God created us out of clay and breathed His spirit into us. We are part of the world by God's design.
 
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drich0150

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I was responding to the idea Christians are otherworldly. We are specifically not otherworldly. God created us out of clay and breathed His spirit into us. We are part of the world by God's design.
so are you a creature of the flesh only? or is their more? Do you not have a soul? Is the soul corporeal? is it "made of clay" too?

If God breathed into us the breath of life then our origins are Not Terrestrial. Unless you are saying God is of the earth.

I point this out because This body of 'clay' will perish never to return. meaning everything of this world will be returned to this world, and as a christian everything of God, will be returned to God.
 
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NinjaPirate777

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so are you a creature of the flesh only? or is their more? Do you not have a soul? Is the soul corporeal? is it "made of clay" too?

If God breathed into us the breath of life then our origins are Not Terrestrial. Unless you are saying God is of the earth.

I point this out because This body of 'clay' will perish never to return. meaning everything of this world will be returned to this world, and as a christian everything of God, will be returned to God.
We are body, soul and spirit. In time we are resurrected with glorified bodies. I feel like I am repeating myself here. The world God created is of God. We are not separate from God or the world. We are of both. The body is from clay and the spirit from God. God created the clay to house the soul while we are here in physical form.
 
drich0150
drich0150
then Why does Jesus specifically tell us in Luke 11 this world is outside of the Kingdom of Heaven? That the Father's will is not done here on earth as it is in Heaven?
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NinjaPirate777

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drich0150, your post is in my post and I can't edit your part to respond to it. What mischief is this?

In response. Heaven is like Omaha, the earth is like Silicon Valley and hell is like Detroit. Of course one is not part of the other. God's will on earth is to let us be tested. There is no such thing in Heaven. Such nonsense is not tolerated there.
 
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Perhaps there is not a polite way for a tourist to pose such questions to the locals, but here is an attempt. My apologies for any offense it may cause.

Just to be clear, I'm sure John 15:19 refers to the disciples and the Roman Empire, not modern Christians and the whole planet. Yet it seems to me that the majority of Christians I encounter speak and write as if they think otherwise. Some even say outright that the world hates them and they don't belong here. But this is only my experience, and I don't know how it would compare to global statistics that might be gathered if I had the resources for that kind of research.

Is this a common attitude or viewpoint among Christians? Do most of you consider yourselves alien to your own planet? to your own species? Or is it only an outstanding minority of Christians who think this way?

If I'm not mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves Earthlings, but this site does not consider them Christians.
The word alien in the old testament refers to foreigners.

In the sense of the new heaven and the new earth, that individuals who are born again by the Holy Spirit belong to, you could say we are of a different world. A different world that will come later on.

Jehovah witnesses have a unique way of interpreting the gospel of John, so I tend to emphasize other texts when they're in the discussion.
 
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