Do you believe that todays church has became "luke warm"?

well true i agree! i don't know where you live but i do live in the united states and here it jsut seems so much more liberalism going on than ever before. people are becoming so tolerant to the changing times that somewhere along the way it seems the Scriptures have been forgotten.

but i do see God working in some churches and they seem as strong as ever. i think as a whole society itself is getting lukewarm to the churches teachings and some (not all ) churches are bending to that.

Allen2 said:

CBK! How do you know how Christianity as a whole is lukewarm? Where did you get this information? I think it depends sometimes on the country and even provinces and states in a particular country. Many Islamic people are coming to Christ thru the Spirit-filled of brave believers. I am aware of numerous RED-HOT churches sending out missionaries and living the Gospel. Do you or I even know how the church is doing in America: at least my perspective is very, very limited. God bless, Al

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I stand corrected.... I'll restate... I believe christianity in the U.S.A. is, as a whole, lukewarm...

cbk said:

I stand corrected.... I'll restate... I believe christianity in the U.S.A. is, as a whole, lukewarm...

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I agree

I'll ask it again: Why do you believe that the American church is lukewarm? Are we to depend on our own limited experience and prominent Christians on the radio or TV who may embarrass us? One recommendation: check out barna.com where serious research is being done on the health of the American church or read Geo Barna's book, "The Second Coming of the Church". Personally, while I am concerned about the church, I have seen so many on -fire churches and ministries and missionaries to fill several lifetimes. It's too easy for us to glibly pass judgment on "The Church": we only begin to be qualified critics if we are committed to a local church under the authority and shepherding of the church's leaders and ourselves serving consistently in that church no matter how many jerky Chr. we meet. God bless, Al

kimber1 said:

well true i agree! i don't know where you live but i do live in the united states and here it jsut seems so much more liberalism going on than ever before. people are becoming so tolerant to the changing times that somewhere along the way it seems the Scriptures have been forgotten.

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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27962

great article exposing the forces that have been destroying the church and its teachings.

Yet for a hundred years, many American bishops and theologians have believed that the American culture, dominant in the world, has something to teach the Church. They subordinated the command to evangelize the culture to their vision of an Americanized Catholic Church. For the first 50 years, these men were a small underground cadre of dissidents. By the close of the Second Vatican Council, the second generation of "modernists" had spread their Americanized vision of church in seminaries and universities.

It became fashionable for some American prelates to flaunt one's independence from the Church – to prove that they were not stodgy old time Catholics, but the sophisticated "American Catholics." Many of the bishops in Dallas today came of age in the '60s era of rebellion. They resent, as free Americans, being told what to do by the Vatican. As early as 1961, the Vatican issued an instruction, The Careful Selection And Training of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders, prohibiting the admission of homosexuals to the seminaries. It was simply ignored by those bent on "changing the structure" of the Church to conform to the liberal American culture.

Allen2 said:

I'll ask it again: Why do you believe that the American church is lukewarm? Are we to depend on our own limited experience and prominent Christians on the radio or TV who may embarrass us? One recommendation: check out barna.com where serious research is being done on the health of the American church or read Geo Barna's book, "The Second Coming of the Church". Personally, while I am concerned about the church, I have seen so many on -fire churches and ministries and missionaries to fill several lifetimes. It's too easy for us to glibly pass judgment on "The Church": we only begin to be qualified critics if we are committed to a local church under the authority and shepherding of the church's leaders and ourselves serving consistently in that church no matter how many jerky Chr. we meet. God bless, Al

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Yeah the church as a whole is luke-warm if not cold. Why do I say? what is my basis? It's self evident.

Here's 2 tangible facts...I could probably list 100's if I had the time.

1. Missionaries - the fact that the very term exists is a sad commentary on the type of Christian produced by our churches. The great commission is the church's marching orders, yet only an elite few are adhering to the order. The Church at Antioch in the book of Acts would not have tolerated this. ALL were involved - not a handful.

2. Semenaries - yet another "institution" that came into existence as a result of a faulty product...lack of disciple making is the indictment here.

3. 50% of the world has yet to hear the name Jesus redemptively, yet we have far more tangible resources and bodies than we did in the 1st century.

oops, that was three...

It's not a question of jerky Christians. I believe that MOST of us are running to the limit of our light. It seems as though the leadership has lost its way, and fails to lead by example; one of the most important elements in building or making disciples. It cannot be done behind a pulpit or even from a building, for that matter.

It's a common saying "Like pastor, like people". In other words, if your pastor is a devout student of the Word, so will the assembly, If the pastor is caught up in fortune 500, corporate building strategies and other superficial strategies, so will his assembly. If he's focused on invoking unbiblical, supernatural, cultic experiences and poisoning people with the false doctrine that encompasses such ideas, then the assembly will continuously crave it. If his focus is on the vision of the entire world and building disciples to impact it, then the results will reflect it....

sorry for rambling..

So, I say that the church has become lukewarm, if not cold, not only because of the poor theology that floods our airwaves, but simply because the result produced these days does not match the result outlined in scripture....mainly because we've altered the recipe to the point that the former cannot be recognized easily anymore.

Proverbs 29:18 could not be more true. Our lakc of GOD"S vision has caused the results we see today. It's self evident.

Hi 4sight! Just a few thots:
1. A church can send out missionaries(as the Church at Antioch did) and its people be very involved in the spread of the Gospel where they live.
2. Seminaries: glad you brought up the subject. I'm a graduate of 2 sems. One of them, Denver Seminary, required each student to be involved in a local church. Denver also has its students mentored by pastors and people in ministry, so there is development of mature Christian character and "hands on" experience in the church and not just the academic side. A seminary gives a group of churches and individuals the oppty to join together to train people for ministry: I can't see how this would be a failure on the part of the local church. If the local church fails to teach its young people solid doctrine, what can the seminary do for these people when they arrive at their doorstep. I'm so grateful for the church's where I belonged and served for preparing me for seminary and for ministry in general.
I share your concern for the church--it's obvious you love God's Church or you wouldn't be raising these issues. I'm just not certain how healthy our American believers are and I want to have a fair and balanced view. God bless, Al

I think that the Church in all of western culture Europe, US, Canada, Mexico and even parts of the old Soviet Union are in decline. While there are still some remnents of the Philadelphian spirit around the Laodicean attitude is prevalent. This generation is just like Lot. We've pitched our tents towards Sodom. They want their music to sound just like the worlds, have parties, modesty is rare, and how many "Christians" went to see "Bruce Almighty" and such like?
'nough said?

Palatka44 said:

I think that the Church in all of western culture Europe, US, Canada, Mexico and even parts of the old Soviet Union are in decline. While there are still some remnents of the Philadelphian spirit around the Laodicean attitude is prevalent. This generation is just like Lot. We've pitched our tents towards Sodom. They want their music to sound just like the worlds, have parties, modesty is rare, and how many "Christians" went to see "Bruce Almighty" and such like?
'nough said?

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Are you implying that every christian who see's bruce almighty is going to hell?

Sharky said:

Are you implying that every christian who see's bruce almighty is going to hell?

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Nope, I did not imply that at all whatsoever. Let me state that anyone that is a duely noted Christian in the eyes of God is and forever now and always saved from Hell. Only that person knows for sure that they are or not a Christian in the eyes of God. With that said I will attempt to clarify that the Church today is allowing itself certain aspects of this world into our lives so as to render us into much the same vexation that Lot had found himself in.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah but deliverd "just Lot".
Should the deliverance of Lot be a rejoicing event or lamented?
Abraham no doubt rejoiced to find that Lot was saved but Lot's estate afterwards was a very sad affair.

Many Churches have lost what IS Most Important...I Know that within My Home Church there has been times,When I thought 'What In the world am I doing here?' So Many Christians and even Preachers have Lost that Vibe ,The feeling to Witness to others and be able to go out ,Share the Gospel and Word of God with others.They are scared and Do not want to cause an Uproar Between People..I want to say That is Just what we Need to Do! You always hear 'There are Backbitters,Gossipers,Liars In Churches.'Well a few More would Not hurt anything...I see it as we Should be able to get off our tails and go to someone Tell them we love them and want to share Gods words with them ..Oh,Some may get Afraid and say 'I may Step On someones Toes' Well,GOOD! Someone needs to..Churches have gotten slack...If we apply Our Spiritual needs to Our Physical Needs ,we might just get somewhere.(As In the feeding and Nurishing word of Christ Jesus.)

There is so MUCH more that I could Type,But I will just leave it at that ....God Bless.

Allen2 said:

Hi 4sight! Just a few thots:
1. A church can send out missionaries(as the Church at Antioch did) and its people be very involved in the spread of the Gospel where they live.
2. Seminaries: glad you brought up the subject. I'm a graduate of 2 sems. One of them, Denver Seminary, required each student to be involved in a local church. Denver also has its students mentored by pastors and people in ministry, so there is development of mature Christian character and "hands on" experience in the church and not just the academic side. A seminary gives a group of churches and individuals the oppty to join together to train people for ministry: I can't see how this would be a failure on the part of the local church. If the local church fails to teach its young people solid doctrine, what can the seminary do for these people when they arrive at their doorstep. I'm so grateful for the church's where I belonged and served for preparing me for seminary and for ministry in general.
I share your concern for the church--it's obvious you love God's Church or you wouldn't be raising these issues. I'm just not certain how healthy our American believers are and I want to have a fair and balanced view. God bless, Al

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Those involved in the spreading of the gospel amongst the church at Antioch were not missionaries. I can see how one might come to that conclusion, but mass majority were all involved. There was no ladder of dedication, where the masses cheered, while the unique few went out on missions as we call it today. Everyone in a sense, was a missionary, and herein lies the difference.

Most refer to missions work as a specific calling, but it's not. It's every person's calling.

I see your point regarding seminaries...and I'm thankful they exist. But they cannot adequately take the place of God's plan which is encased in the Great Commission.

Seems that we (The Chruch) have really lost site of our roots. I mean the original NT roots. It sure is interesting to read about the 1st Century church in Acts. I think it was all pretty much spelled out there. Yet when we discuss this today, people say that times have changed and the way things were done back then can no longer apply. While times have changed I thing the functions of the first century church should still be our functions. Some of the forms can no longer apply due to the way we live today.

I'm no expert on this stuff but there is a very cool site from a group called "New Testament Restoration Foundation" (ntrf.org). They go into every aspect of the NT church. If we got back to our roots I think the number of people calling themselves Christians would drop by more than half but those that were left would be the powerful witness that God intended the church to be.

What does it mean to be lukewarm? I think many do not understand this term. Just because a man works, feeds his family, and lives day-to-day life serving God does not make him lukewarm. That makes him a good man, correct?