myutmost4him said:
Is there anything you regard as sin? Apparently we need someone such as yourself to go to the original hebrew text and gleam the hidden meanings and mysteries of the scriptures. How do we tell what mood the writer was in when he wrote the words down and how does that effect the meaning or the context of the verses. To bad a God who is all knowing and all powerful couldn't inspire scripture which could be understood except for an elite few. Maybe we should go back to just allowing a few church leaders to interpret the scriptures and get the bible out of the hands of the ""commoners". Or better yet, let's just start over. Get some blank paper and just start writing a new bible, one that takes what our present society thinks is right and then we will use that, oh wait, you've already been doing that haven't you? Way ahead of me.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 said:
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and, though they chasten him, will not listen to them;
19 then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out to the elders of his city, and to the gate of his place;
20 and they shall tell the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 All the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones: so shall you put away the evil from the midst of you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Or did God mean that "for a certain time and a certain place, in certain circumstances."
Nawwww -- if it's in the Bible, then God meant it for all times and all places -- so if your 3 year old steals a cookie, you know what to do.
And if one of our married, heterosexual male soldiers in Iraq should find a woman he believes to be attractive:
Deuteronomy 21:10-17 said:
10 When you go forth to battle against your enemies, and Yahweh your God delivers them into your hands, and you carry them away captive,
11 and see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you have a desire to her, and would take her to you as wife;
12 then you shall bring her home to your house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 and she shall put the clothing of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in your house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that you shall go in to her, and be her husband, and she shall be your wife.
14 It shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall let her go where she will; but you shall not sell her at all for money, you shall not deal with her as a slave, because you have humbled her.
15 If a man have two wives, the one beloved, and the other hated, and they have borne him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers who was hated;
16 then it shall be, in the day that he causes his sons to inherit that which he has, that he may not make the son of the beloved the firstborn before the son of the hated, who is the firstborn:
17 but he shall acknowledge the firstborn, the son of the hated, by giving him a double portion of all that he has; for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.
A plain and simple reading of Scripture, in context, shows that wife number one had just better get used to her situation because hubby now has two wives.
And why is this OK? Because a very clear and simple reading of Scripture, in context, shows that the value of women is between one half and three fifths that of a men:
Leviticus 27:1-7 said:
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying,
2 Speak to the children of Israel, and tell them, When a man shall accomplish a vow, the persons shall be for Yahweh by your estimation.
3 Your estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even to sixty years old, even your estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
4 If it be a female, then your estimation shall be thirty shekels.
5 If it be from five years old even to twenty years old, then your estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
6 If it be from a month old even to five years old, then your estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female your estimation shall be three shekels of silver.
7 If it be from sixty years old and upward; if it be a male, then your estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.
I can just hear the conservatives' complaint, now -- "But that's not what Scripture
means -- and you're distorting the meaning of the Word of God."
No, I am
not distorting the Word of God -- I'm giving you the Word of God
exactly as it is, and it's probably parts you haven't read, but they ARE there and it IS the Word of God.
Being well-versed in the Scriptures, Paul was certainly aware of this Scripture when he wrote in 1 Timothy 2:13-15: "13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience;
15
but she will be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety."
Simply put: no babies = no salvation. Period. It IS in the Bible, and it IS in context, and it IS the Word of God.
Actually, I would be tickled to death to have more churches have REAL Scripture study,
in depth, all the way down to the original words and the meanings of the words in their historical, religious, political and social context -- rather than these intellectually bankrupt "Bible Studies" read from a bad translation without any attempt to find out what the author's original intent was and how this might apply today.
Then again, many conservative churches have a vested interest in maintaining a socially conservative status quo so that women who are in abusive marriages will stay in those marriages and continue accepting their abuse (because, after all, if a woman is in an abusive marriage it must be her fault); and a teenager who becomes pregnant can become properly shunned (because she did not cry out as prescribed in Leviticus 19:20); or a woman who is raped deserves her pregnancy and can be properly shunned because she did not cry out (Deuteronomy 22); and keeping women out of the pulpit (because Eve sinned and not Adam) -- and I'm sure we can find lots and LOTS of way to keep people under elders' thumbs (and remaining quiet and contributing money).
Oh yes, indeed -- the Church today DOES need reforming -- and probably not because of those AWFUL gays and lesbians but because of the uncharitable, judgmental, self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitudes which have infected our churches as they have transformed from hospitals for sinners to the Exclusive Country Club of the Elect!
You want to know how I determine sin? It's really simple, and it's right out of Matthew 25: "'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to Me." Treating people nasty-nice and cloaking it in Scripture is sin -- and probably some of the most damnable sin of all, because of its potential to destroy (permanently) the faith of the recipient.
Don't tell me that saying something to someone which is
purposefully and deliberately designed to hurt is "reproving them in love". Each one of us will give an account of ourselves to God, all of us will stand before the judgment seat of Christ, and each one of us will be judged for the things WE do so that we don't need to be taking moral inventories of others. Whatever is not of faith is sin; and using Scripture as a weapon to destroy someone's faith is SIN.
Using a pretty broad brush Uber, lots of assumptions there. So all conservatives are what, bad?, evil?, sinners? I'm not feeling the Love. 
