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KelsayDL

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Indeed God does want us to worship him daily.

Yet, he only blessed one day, and set it aside as a day of rest. That day is the Sabbath.

Many people will argue the Sabbath has been abolished. I see no where that it has been. The catholics take great pride when confronting the theology of Sola Scriptura Luther espoused, calling it false for they did not maintain a 7th day observance of the sabbath, as scripture dictates. And they are right, in that regard.

Abolishment would require direct action from God, not guessing and esoteric interpretation by man. That action would contradict himself when he said the Sabbath is perpetual.

Here are only a few comments concerning the Sabbath from catholics, and a couple from Protestants;

1) Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.

"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."


2) James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."


3) Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."


4) James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"


5) The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."


6) Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."


7) Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."


8) T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."


9) D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"

I agree with the catholic position. They alone brushed aside the 7th day Sabbath and ordained Sunday. An action for which they will have to account for on that day. The Protestants continue in willfull ignorance of what God has said about the Sabbath.
 
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Magisterium

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inaudiblemelody said:
What is the true sabbath day? Is it sinful for me to worship on Sunday? I mean, doesn't God want us to worship every day, not just on the Sabbath?

Well, I could post a bunch of writings from the church fathers long before a protestant ever existed, but instead, I'll just point out a few important scriptures:

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath.
17 These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ.

Mk 2:27
27 And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.


All of this talk about the Catholic church did this and that apart from scripture is profoundly ignorant and rediculous. It was the Roman Catholic church who canonized the bible itself. It was the Roman Catholic church who asserted the bible as the infallible word of God in 390AD. The bible itself stood apart only by declaration by the Roman Catholic Church to it's authenticity. Additionally, silly protestants point to the bible as somehow authoritative in and of itself when the bible itself says that THE CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth!
1Tim 3:15
15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.


The fact is, the theology behind the observation of the Sabbath on Sunday is lost on the silly people who have not bothered to ask why but simply reject based upon incomplete understanding.
Just as God's plan of creation was completed in 6 "days" so his plan for man's redemption was completed in 6 Covenants.
1: Adam and Eve(a Couple)
2: Noah (a Family)
3: Abraham (a Tribe)
4: Moses (a Nation)
5: David (a Kingdom)
6: Jesus (all mankind)

This correlation was apparent to the early christians which is why the Church was called "katholikos" which is the Greek word for universal. With each covenant, the opportunity for redemption grew to a larger group of people culminating with Jesus' "universal" covenant. Jesus' resurrection was the "new wine" (not to be placed into old wineskins)and the completion of the new universal covenant. For this reason, the "new creation" brought about through 6 covenants through which all minkind could find salvation was completed on the 8th day (for our Lord rose on Sunday). His death destroyed death and His resurrection restored Life.

Jesus also repeatedly indicates the authority of the church and it's protection. Ironically, Jesus Never commanded that the bible itself ever be written! The canonization of the bible itself was an act of the Church in it's authority which is ordained by God.
This was pretty much universally understood until about 400 years ago when Luther asserted that the Bible alone was the authority then proceeded to alter it's text and revise it's contents. Interesting huh?

GK Chesterton I think summed it up well when he wrote
"The Catholic Church has been accused of trying to hide the bible. This is of course untrue. However, if it were true, it would pale in comparison to the Protestant Reformation which successfully hid everything else!"
 
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Achichem

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inaudiblemelody said:
What is the true sabbath day? Is it sinful for me to worship on Sunday? I mean, doesn't God want us to worship every day, not just on the Sabbath?

First I would like to mention the fact that I am a Sabbath worship ,true sunset to sunset.

However it is not sinful to worship on Sunday as the Sabbath! If the reason why you are setting Sunday apart is out of faith the Jesus rose on that day.

Then the reason you are setting that day apart is out of faith, you make it clean and holy in the eyes of the Lord. And of course you should worship ever day, but the lord does want people to set apart a special day in which you work solely on your relationship with the lord.

You are not justified in law but in faith! Do not take this the wrong way the lord demands both faith and law, however one complements the other and faith must be the starting point.

Also and I think more importantly remember not to let the day you do set apart become burdensome, because you do it out of love and faith in the lord, and that does not involve burden.

But now I have made that clear let me try and explain what people do not seem to ever understand about the Sabbath for the most part, and why some Christian keep it so close to their hearts.

When you set apart Sunday, you do it out of tradition!(i understand faith to)

When you set apart The Sabbath, you do it simply because the Lord directly told you to,
Interesting thing to think about,

God Bless,
DaTsar
 
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Colossians

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Inaudible..,

The word "sabbath" does not refer to a day, but to "rest".
The rest ("Sabbath") we have received is in accord with the Hebrews passage I quoted: we have rested permanently from trying to please God, and have accepted Christ's work on our behalf.

Thus Christ is our Sabbath (rest).
And this is why He said "Come to me all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest". That is, He was not giving us a vacation plan, but an assurance that we can rest in His salvation: that we no longer need to strive to please Him, but may 'Sabbath' in His finished work at Calvary.
 
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Colossians

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Datsar,

First I would like to mention the fact that I am a Sabbath worship ,true sunset to sunset.
If you were God, would you care where the position of the earth was in relation to the sun with regard to those with whom you communed with eternally? (I bet you don't confront this question honestly.)

..the lord does want people to set apart a special day in which you work solely on your relationship with the lord.
So you set apart a day to rest by working? This shows that you do not understand what it is you are to rest from. (See my answer to Inaudible above.)

the lord demands
"God is love."
"Love does not demand".
Therefore God does not demand.
QED.

both faith and law,
"No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment". Mt 9:16

however one complements the other and faith must be the starting point.
"The law is not of faith". Gal 3.

Also and I think more importantly remember not to let the day you do set apart become burdensome, because you do it out of love and faith in the lord, and that does not involve burden.
If it is a burden, then it is no use pretending it is not. God wants honesty, not mental gymnastics. The fact that you have to convince yourself and others it is not a burden, is proof that it is.
No-one needs to be convinced that a 3-week vacation at Waikiki is not a burden.

let me try and explain .. why some Christian keep it so close to their hearts.
You are simply living in fear of not keeping it, and convincing yourself in your mind that you do it out of love.
But you are in a bind. For you know your resulting peril of mind were you to abstain from your Sabbath-keeping. You pretend it is optional, but deep down inside you are scared not to keep it: therefore you are bound by law. You are not free.

When you set apart The Sabbath, you do it simply because the Lord directly told you to,
The Lord directed the Israelites to keep it as a sign of sanctification (Ex 31). The NT tells us we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, therefore we have no need of an external sign - it is as redundant as circumcision.

The reason you set aside your saturday as a supposed 'sabbath' is simply because someone in the church you have stumbled into (most likely SDA) has brainwashed you with intensive indoctrination and sophistry of semantics, twisting the semantics of the dispenstations of grace and law, and not rightly dividing the Word. If you are honest with yourself, you will take a hard look at why a 'gospel' which is supposed to set you free has made you less free than when you were a non-believer.
And you will look to Jesus alone.
 
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CrossMovement

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Colossians said:
"There therefore remaineth a rest for the people of God: that he that has entered into His rest has ceased from his own works as God did from His."

If you feel it necessary to keep the Sabbath, then you have yet to realise what it is you are supposed to be resting from.
This will need to a no sense , you know why ? Because we are just giving up verse , we are not giving the description or the context of the chapters. This is way I think that this will lead to nowhere. But I will just show this even if it is in the OT and that people think that we should not follow the Old law anymore. When I've read the thing that said that people were brainwashed and were indoctrined (SDA) I've just said to myself : Pass. It is your opinion and I could say thing like that but I am not here to turn down a denomination.

10 commandments : Remember Your Sabbath Day to keep it holy

Even after christ died , The apostled still continue to follow the Saturday Sabbath. But Whatever just continue to search for yourself. I have had so many Sabbath debate and non of them have changed something so I have come to a conclusion that it is better to just study the bible for yourself with intense search on the subject that you want to know. We can't really "trust" a person that we don't really know just by text so that's why we must ask those question to a pastor and a priest to see the two side of the story , I did that and I have made my conclusion after my bible study. But if i'm brainwashed than I am brainwashed but I know that I have REALLY search and don't just pretend (By the way i'm reallyt not pointing anyone here , just saying it in a general way , just to not have people that could think that I am talking to them generally). And I don't say this to make myself a better person that know everything , But just saying that I have heard the two sided of the story.

read this text please people in this text there is not just verse , but there is also a context that is saying , which the colossian verse is there. If you think that it is not true after that then At least I didn't keep it to myself , I have made my job for at least claify some thing



Some people have provided texts that they believe directly respond to the challenge. Here are the texts with the challenger's comments along with the response sent to the individuals. Please keep in mind that the challenge is to provide a single text that states that the sanctity of the seventh-day of the week has been transferred to the first day.
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Matthew 12:8: "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Challenger's Comment: Only 9 of the commandments in the Old Testament were repeated in the New Testament. The only one that was not restated was the Sabbath and Jesus said that he is Lord of the Sabbath in Matthew 12:8.

OUR RESPONSE: There is absolutely no place in the New Testament where nine of the ten-commandments are listed together as a new covenant table. Further, take a look at the parallel to Matthew 12:8 in Mark 2:27-28. Jesus explicitly states, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." It is in this context that he declares himself to be Lord/Master of the Sabbath. Additionally, in Hebrews 4:9 we are told that a "Sabbath keeping" (Greek = sabbatismos), remains for the people of God. Another text--among many--refers to the last day saints as being those "who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12) I'm sure you would agree that one of the commandments of God makes it clear that Sabbath is the seventh-day of the week (Ex 20:8-11).

line41.gif





Acts 20:7: "On the first of the week, we gathered together to break bread...."
Challenger's Comment: In addition Acts 20:7 indicates that Christians did in fact meet on Sundays and they broke bread and had fellowship together.

OUR RESPONSE: The events in Acts 20:7 take place on a Saturday night (eve of the first day). While it is not out of the realm of possibility, the text does not say that this was something they did on a weekly basis. This is a special farewell meeting for Paul who leaves for a new location on Sunday morning (ibid). Furthermore, according to Acts 2:46, breaking bread was something that early Christians did on a daily basis.

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Acts 20:7: "On the first of the week, we gathered together to break bread...."
Challenger's Comment: It is clear that we as Christians are free to worship on Sundays or any day for that matter.

OUR RESPONSE: Well stated! Christians are free to worship on any day. I myself try to worship at least twice a day. Of course, the issue is not whether or not Christians are free to worship, but whether God has sanctified a new day to commemorate his acts of creation and liberation. The issue is whether God has said in His word that the Sabbath should no longer be kept holy. The issue is whether God has said that Sunday is now the day on which he rested and set apart for a holy use.

line41.gif
Romans 3:28: "We are justified by faith apart from observing the law" (Romans 3:28).

OUR RESPONSE: This is absolutely true, and has been a part of biblical teaching since the Old Testament Scriptures (see Habakkuk 2:4). As far as Romans 3:28 is concerned, have you taken note of Romans 3:31?
<HR>
Romans 14:5-6: "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers everyday alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so for the Lord..."

OUR RESPONSE: Does Paul stipulate which days he has in mind here? Is either Sabbath or Sunday mentioned?
<HR>
Colossians 2:14: "Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
Challenger's Comment: Jesus' death on the cross canceled the law, we no longer have to keep it to be justified.

OUR RESPONSE: Does this text mention anything about the "law" being canceled? What leads you to believe that "written code" is the law? What do other versions say? Better still, read from Colossians 2:1 and see the full context of Paul's statement. Furthermore, was there ever a time when a person could be justified by the works of the law?


<HR>
Colossians 3:16-17: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however is found in Christ."
Challenger's Comment: Notice that the timing in the verse, a festival is yearly, a New Moon celebration is monthly, and a sabbath is weekly and no one is to judge regarding this.
OUR RESPONSE: What does Paul mean when he says, "Do not let anyone judge you?" Is Paul condemning these practices? How do you explain the parallel statement in Romans 14:3? Further, does the text in the original Greek say "Sabbath day" or "Sabbaths"?​


this come from http://www.sabbathchallenge.org/responses.html read the site and say your answer to them , they will respond after , but I did more then that , I have searched after and read my bible , This was just a step (For me).


Enjoy :clap:
 
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Colossians

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crossmovement

But I will just show this even if it is in the OT and that people think that we should not follow the Old law anymore.
So you agree it is old.

10 commandments : Remember Your Sabbath Day to keep it holy
10 commandments which were given as a covenant with a people called Israel, which covenant God has broken forever. (Zech 11:10,11)

it is better to just study the bible for yourself with intense search on the subject that you want to know.
It's better to listen to the Lord speaking to your heart by the Holy Spirit. If what you hear is not only about Jesus Christ, then it is from your own mind, or the devil. The idea of a sabbath does not glorify Jesus' work at Calvary. It focusses on what YOU can do, therefore it robs Christ of glory. It is therefore not from the Holy Spirit.

There is absolutely no place in the New Testament where nine of the ten-commandments are listed together as a new covenant table.
None of the old commandments are part of the new covenant.

in Hebrews 4:9 we are told that a "Sabbath keeping" (Greek = sabbatismos), remains for the people of God.
And the understanding provided with it is as follows: "FOR He that is entered into God's rest has ceased from His works as God did from His". Note that it means to permanently cease from one's work, therefore it does not refer to physical work, but to working for one's salvation. Our Sabbath is therefore Jesus Christ.

Another text--among many--refers to the last day saints as being those "who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12)
The faith of Jesus is sufficient on its own, for Jesus Chirst is everything. Therefore the "commandments of God" and the "faith of Jesus" are in fact the same thing expressed in different manner, in like manner to Paul's expression of the church in Galations, where he says "peace be upon you and upon the Israel of God", where both "you" and "the Israel of God" are the same thing.
The OT commandments cannot be joined to the faith of Christ, for we are told that "the law is not of faith".
So what are they then in pragmatic form? They are that described in 1 John 1:23,24. These supercede the OT commandments.


Christians are free to worship on any day.I myself try to worship at least twice a day.
A Christian's life is worship. He does not worship in increments, but with every breath of his being. He is in worship to Christ the same way Sarah was to Abraham: he has submitted his life completely to the lorsdhip of Christ. This is what worship is. To "try" to worship is to do things in your own strength and is in fact the very opposite of worship. It is what pagans do.

The issue is whether God has said in His word that the Sabbath should no longer be kept holy.
The issue is whether you have died to the law. (Rom 7:4)

have you taken note of Romans 3:31?
To "establish" the law does not mean to "keep" the law. To establish the law means to set it in place, as one does when one establishes a building. Our coming to Christ through faith establishes the law in that it ratifies its purpose: to drive us to Christ. Thus the law is established (confirmed with regard to its utility).

Colossians 2:14: "Having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."
OUR RESPONSE: Does this text mention anything about the "law" being canceled?

So you think that when something is nailed to the cross, it means it is not cancelled. If it is not even cancelled by being nailed to a cross, then if one wanted to cancel it, how much more of a death would he have to give it? No. You simply do not want to believe it is cancelled.

What do other versions say?
In other words, you have your preconceived idea in your head, and rather than be taught by the prima facie meaning of scripture, you search and search until you can find something which supports your idea. So is the scripture teaching you, or are you teaching the scripture?

was there ever a time when a person could be justified by the works of the law?
If whatever you do contributes nothing to justification, then it is something you should not be doing.

Colossians 3:16-17: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality however is found in Christ."
OUR RESPONSE: What does Paul mean when he says, "Do not let anyone judge you?" Is Paul condemning these practices?​

He is condemning those who stand apart from the Body of Christ by virtue of their doctrine, they in so separating themselves irresistably declaring the rest of the Body as being in inferior light to themselves.​
 
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Achichem

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Oradan, Book of os-chk(being watchful),
You are blind and hindered by words! Blind of all that matters! empty of anything that is love! You forget love in your repulsion, and make waste of the fruits that lead you to grace
I thought this says my feelings to your insults very well! purhaps too harsh but buddy in my eyes you are out of line, on a tangent i have never een before! since i know you want to love Jesus I shall respond!
Colossians said:
If you were God, would you care where the position of the earth was in relation to the sun with regard to those with whom you communed with eternally? (I bet you don't confront this question honestly.
I say sunset-to-sunset is because I go off the Hebrew calendar, because my lord and savior followed it!
Colossians said:
So you set apart a day to rest by working? This shows that you do not understand what it is you are to rest from. (See my answer to Inaudible above.)
LOL, LoL, Oo, Well I set every day to worship God, but this day is special because the lord anointed it, I do find rest in our Father in heaven, I am sorry you do not!
Colossians said:
the lord demands
"God is love."
"Love does not demand".
Therefore God does not demand.
QED.
OK, so your saying God must then either command or love! because in that case your just plain whack, cause even my earthly father does that!
Colossians said:
both faith and law,
"No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment". Mt 9:16
Obedience comes of faith, love and trust! I follow my examples Abraham, David, Job and Jesus, ect.
All were justified, all did this! So I do not know where you get such logic, for even Paul did all this!
Colossians said:
however one complements the other and faith must be the starting point.
"The law is not of faith". Gal 3.
So basically in your mind, you listen to your self and not to the words of the living God!
Colossians said:
Also and I think more importantly remember not to let the day you do set apart become burdensome, because you do it out of love and faith in the lord, and that does not involve burden.
If it is a burden, then it is no use pretending it is not. God wants honesty, not mental gymnastics. The fact that you have to convince yourself and others it is not a burden, is proof that it is.
No-one needs to be convinced that a 3-week vacation at Waikiki is not a burden.
I would be referring to making a whole lot of: what can be done, and what cannot be done! I am sorry you misunderstood
Colossians said:
let me try and explain .. why some Christian keep it so close to their hearts.
You are simply living in fear of not keeping it, and convincing yourself in your mind that you do it out of love.
But you are in a bind. For you know your resulting peril of mind were you to abstain from your Sabbath-keeping. You pretend it is optional, but deep down inside you are scared not to keep it: therefore you are bound by law. You are not free.
LOL, in fear eh,
Actually I follow whom I love!
Colossians said:
When you set apart The Sabbath, you do it simply because the Lord directly told you to,
The Lord directed the Israelites to keep it as a sign of sanctification (Ex 31). The NT tells us we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, therefore we have no need of an external sign - it is as redundant as circumcision.
First, circumcision is no different then baptism, of course I would never expect you to understand that, it is clear you are not at that point yet. I pray you get there soon.

The lord set this apart in the beginning, it is in his law, it is his plan, his plan is not yet complete!
Colossians said:
The reason you set aside your saturday as a supposed 'sabbath' is simply because someone in the church you have stumbled into (most likely SDA) has brainwashed you with intensive indoctrination and sophistry of semantics, twisting the semantics of the dispenstations of grace and law, and not rightly dividing the Word. If you are honest with yourself, you will take a hard look at why a 'gospel' which is supposed to set you free has made you less free than when you were a non-believer.
And you will look to Jesus alone.
You know nothing of how I came to this, this came from much prayer and crying out for help and understanding!

I listen to the word of God because I love him, and in love I obey!
I follow the one who is good, our father!
For no man would disobey the one he loves and cherish beyond all.

God bless,
DaTsar
 
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DaTsar
you said to Collossians,
buddy in my eyes you are out of line,

the truth is in fact that you are out of line and without the likes of Collossians, you and others like you would do real damage.

inaudiblemelody asked,

What is the true sabbath day? Is it sinful for me to worship on Sunday? I mean, doesn't God want us to worship every day, not just on the Sabbath?

you said:
the lord demands both faith and law



that's a downright 'lie'

You and your 'buddies' are Judaizers and Collossians is trying to bring you in line with the Truth of God's Word but 'par for the course' you are resisting because you do not have a love of the Truth but are comfortable with your own 'efforts' replacing the finished work of Christ Jesus.

Dave
 
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Colossians

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Datsar,

Originally Posted By: Colossians
If you were God, would you care where the position of the earth was in relation to the sun with regard to those with whom you communed with eternally? (I bet you don't confront this question honestly.)
I say sunset-to-sunset is because I go off the Hebrew calendar, because my lord and savior followed it!
I win the bet.


Originally Posted By: Colossians
So you set apart a day to rest by working? This shows that you do not understand what it is you are to rest from. (See my answer to Inaudible above.)
LOL, LoL, Oo, Well I set every day to worship God, but this day is special because the lord anointed it, I do find rest in our Father in heaven, I am sorry you do not!
So I told you we are supposed to be permanently in rest. You tell me that means I have not found rest. Eh.....right..
And then you contradict yourself by saying you have found rest, but obviously you lose your rest each Friday sunset, and have to find it again. You should be more careful.


Originally Posted By: Colossians
the lord demands
"God is love."
"Love does not demand".
Therefore God does not demand.
QED.
OK, so your saying God must then either command or love! because in that case your just plain whack, cause even my earthly father does that!
God does indeed command. God does indeed love. But your problem is that you assume that those whom he commands, and those whom he loves, are the same people. 603,548 of the 603,550 fighting men he commanded in Israel never made it to Canaan, let alone heaven.


Originally Posted By: Colossians
"No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment". Mt 9:16
Obedience comes of faith, love and trust! I follow my examples Abraham, David, Job and Jesus, ect. All were justified, all did this! So I do not know where you get such logic, for even Paul did all this!
Are you saying that God has given us faith to obey a law, which He says is not of faith?


Originally Posted By: Colossians
"The law is not of faith". Gal 3.
So basically in your mind, you listen to your self and not to the words of the living God!
So you evidence the fact that you do not believe God wrote Galations. Why am I not surprised?


Originally Posted By: Colossians
If it is a burden, then it is no use pretending it is not.
I would be referring to making a whole lot of: what can be done, and what cannot be done! I am sorry you misunderstood
You were referring to the mental gymnastics you must perform in order to convince yourself you are better off sitting at home contemplating your navel, than enjoying yourself by playing golf, or going to the movies with some friends.


Originally Posted By: Colossians
You are simply living in fear of not keeping it, and convincing yourself in your mind that you do it out of love.
LOL, in fear eh,
Actually I follow whom I love!

You can't be. For "God is love", and "Love does not demand".


Originally Posted By: Colossians
The Lord directed the Israelites to keep it as a sign of sanctification (Ex 31). The NT tells us we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, therefore we have no need of an external sign - it is as redundant as circumcision.
First, circumcision is no different then baptism,
And your evasion of the point is glaringly obvious, and here for all to see.


The lord set this apart in the beginning, it is in his law, it is his plan, his plan is not yet complete!
"It is finished" John 19:30.


I listen to the word of God because I love him, and in love I obey!
I follow the one who is good, our father!

This is your problem. The primary representation of God in the NT is one of husband, not father. You legalists keep using father-children analogies. But the NT is that which has ushered in the husband-wife relationship. Christ is our husband. No husband issues commands to his wife and gets to keep her.

I have never yet, in all my debating, seen a legalist refer to Jesus Christ as husband.
 
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Achichem

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your a funny guy, my friend, a funny guy!

I'll be happy to say it Christ is our husband,

lol, your too funny,...

O btw dave, I am sorry I take pride in the lords day, and that offeds you!

I am also sorry I not a jew hater! What can I say I love whom my lord loves!
 
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Colossians, you have shed some light for me- thanks a lot!

Da Tsar, please do not be defensive. I truly believe Colossians has your best interests at heart. I am also positive he is not a Jew- hater, though I've never had a conversation with him. Be nice, hon. Don't let your pride get in the way.
God bless.
 
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