How do I achieve forgiveness?

Holten

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I need advice and prayer support.

A few years ago my wife was friends with a woman, and this woman actively tried to break up our marriage. Granted, we had problems and my wife sought her advice. This was not (is not?) a Godly woman. My wife finally realized this woman was a bad choice and ended the friendship when I informed my wife that our-then 4 year old daughter was asking me questions about terrible things being said about me by my wife and this woman. Recently my wife has slowly started to renew this friendship after this woman suffered a beating at the hands of her husband. I also recently have come back to God with full vigor and enthusiasm. My marriage is doing better than ever, yet the threat (to me) of this friendship remains. My wife says the husband was the reason the couple was unGodly, and that my wife has been talking to this woman about God. My wife, who is strong in her walk with Christ, wants me to trust her. And honestly I do trust her in all respects but this... I just can't find a positive angle on this friendship.

I've been praying that God take this threat away. That alone was hard for me because I was taught we don't pray so specifically for things WE want. It has been suggested to me by my Christian counselor that the place to start is forgiveness for this woman. She has not asked forgiveness. In fact, I doubt she feels she did anything wrong two years ago. I've been almost obssessing about this. I felt so angry and resentful and betrayed, and this 'new' friendship is bringing all that back. I'm not at all happy my wife is doing this... but at the same time I know I've changed, so maybe this woman has changed... and, because my wife was ready to end our marriage (or at least spend some time apart) just a few months ago, I can't exactly push her on this. When I've talked to her, she says she feels like I'm trying to control her (which is what the "old" me would have done), and that I don't trust her.

So my need here is... advice on what you think about me praying that God remove this woman from our marriage; prayer for ME to handle this situation; and, advice .. ANYTHING.. on how to go about forgiving this woman even though she hasn't asked for forgiveness. My renewed walk with God began several months ago and has been strong and powerful.. my wife has forgotten her desire to end our marriage and believes in me. I want to give her what whe wants, I want to be the Godly husband and support her, but I feel REALLY trapped by this one.

Please don't suggest that I talk to my wife and tell her my concerns, she knows. I will say that she hasn't strongly pursued the friendship recently, I think out of a realization it is hard for me. But, I fully expect to hear they are getting together sometime soon.

Thank you.
 
My situation is different (raped for 6 hours, police shot guy in my bedroom, didn't kill him, had trial- he got 60 years).... but I struggled with forgiveness for a long time. In Matthew 6:14-15, it talks about forgiving others- and says that we are to do this..... I had to look at forgiveness as an act of obedience, not a 'feeling' towards the person (cuz I didn't feel too good about him!!). That way, I could go through the act of obedience, and leave the feeling part up to God. I also had to remember that forgiveness doesn't mean I approve/condone/ tolerate what he did, but that I'm leaving it up to God. I also got to thinking (usually a hazardous activity!!! :cool: ) that if God is willing to forgive anyone, who am I to have 'higher' standards????? I've got to be willing out of obedience. Took years to get to this point, but I have gotten there, and hope that the guy who raped me meets Jesus in prison.... I don't want to see him face to face on earth, but do hope he can find Truth and Peace where he is. :bow:
 
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Mr.Cheese

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She should be a little understanding of your feelings here. My vow said to forsake all others. To me, that doesn't stop at just other women, but anything that could pose a threat to my marriage. I have also given myself to my wife and vice versa. Your marriage is the priority here even if that is hard to swallow. I don't think you are being unreasonable here.
But maybe forgiveness would help. The woman does have the capacity to change.

getting pounded by your husband can have to tendency to change your perspective of things.
 
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geocajun

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If the women hasn't asked for forgiveness, then don't forgive her.
I would put my foot down if I were you - if you sincerely feel that this person is a problem for your marriage, then that person should have no access to your family.
I suggest that you think long and hard about your intentions in severing the relationship and make sure they are pure before you do put your foot down.
 
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I don't believe that forgiving someone is done because they ask to be forgiven.... or that it really has to do with them much at all.... forgiving someone is for the benefit of the person doing the forgiving as it strengthens their walk with God. Most people who hurt us either a:don't know, or b) don't care.... so why wait to be asked to forgive? Why not just do it, and clear your own side of the street.... it's tough to have close fellowship with God with resentments hanging overhead. Yeah, it's always nice when someone realizes what they've done to hurt us, but it's not necessary in order to forgive. The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt forgive those who ask for it"....
 
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geocajun

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pediNurse said:
I don't believe that forgiving someone is done because they ask to be forgiven.... or that it really has to do with them much at all.... forgiving someone is for the benefit of the person doing the forgiving as it strengthens their walk with God. Most people who hurt us either a:don't know, or b) don't care.... so why wait to be asked to forgive? Why not just do it, and clear your own side of the street.... it's tough to have close fellowship with God with resentments hanging overhead. Yeah, it's always nice when someone realizes what they've done to hurt us, but it's not necessary in order to forgive. The Bible doesn't say "thou shalt forgive those who ask for it"....

Actually, scripture does say to forgive those who repent, but it does not say forgive without repentance - God does not even do that!

Luke 17:3-4
Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
And if he wrongs you seven times in one day and returns to you seven times saying, 'I am sorry,' you should forgive him."


Sure its OK - maybe even good for your health - to forgive those who do not ask for it, but it is not nessecary to do so.
 
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JillLars

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Some people are never given an oppurtunity to ask for forgiveness, and it is not fair to expect God to forgive our sins while we hold things against others in our hearts. "Forgive us our sins, while we forgive those who sin against us" People sin against us all the time, sometimes without even knowing it, we are called to forgive people, whether they ask for it or not, it is not fair to expect God to have a kind heart for us, when we do not afford others the same.
 
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Stanfi

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I think you need to forgive this woman. First it is healthy for you to forgive. It appears that if you are obsessing about this, that is affecting you in unheatlhy ways. The only way to fix this is to forgive this woman. Pray about it, and pray for this woman. The bible says to pray for your enemies. If she isn't saved, she needs the Lord more than anything. Granted, you need to protect your marriage. However, if you and your wife both love the Lord, and put him first in your life, and you show the love of God to each other in your marriage. Then I believe, if you both could pray for this woman, God will protect your marriage, and hopefully your wife could be the person to lead this woman to Christ.

One time I was struggling with forgiveness. These verses got my attention.

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Basically verse 15 told me if I couldn't forgive those who did me wrong, then God wouldn't forgive me when I sin against Him. That told me if I couldn't forgive I was in BIG trouble.. Caught my attention.

Bottom line, put God first love him with all your heart, forgive others and you will be much happier.
 
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geocajun

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JillLars said:
Some people are never given an oppurtunity to ask for forgiveness, and it is not fair to expect God to forgive our sins while we hold things against others in our hearts. "Forgive us our sins, while we forgive those who sin against us" People sin against us all the time, sometimes without even knowing it, we are called to forgive people, whether they ask for it or not, it is not fair to expect God to have a kind heart for us, when we do not afford others the same.

Its "Forgive us our trespasses AS (not while) we forgive those who tresspass against us.."

Forgiving those who repent is the same way God forgives us, thus there is no problem. - we are doing what God does!
Its not forgiving someone who tresspasses against us and repents that keeps God from being able to forgive us.

We are not called to forgive people who do not ask for it.
 
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Faith0263

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yes I definately believe to forgive her. Even if she hasn't ask. I agree, if we wait for those that have hurt us to ask, we might never forgive. Grudges and hurt can only KEEP hurting so the forgiveness helps heal the hurt.

But I would definately pray about it with your wife and yes discuss this openly, jmho. It's bothering you so, and on your heart, I think you should be open and honest with your wife. See where she stands. I mean she's not going to choose having a friendship with this woman over her marriage w/you...if so something bad is really wrong anyway. If you feel threatened in anyway after you've prayed and forgave her, certainly put your foot down. No friendship is worth a marriage. But I will definately be praying that your wife be able to witness to her and that she accept the Lord as her savior. She definately wasn't acting saved..maybe backslidden, whichever, I pray she get on the right track w/God.

Here are some more scriptures that might help:
Matthew 18:23-35

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your tresspasses.

Doesn't say anything about them having to ASK to be forgiven.

Romans 5:10-11 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only SO, but we also joyin God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 
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geocajun

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Faith0263 said:
Doesn't say anything about them having to ASK to be forgiven.

it doesn't say anything about them NOT needing to ask either. Dont take it out out of context of the 'whole of scripture'.
I have shown you where Jesus commands us to forgive those who ASK. Do you mean to tell me that this other scripture contradicts the scripture I quoted, and now we must forgive people regardless of their regret?
God does not even do that - because it is not Just, and God is perfectly Just and so in keeping with His example, we are not obligated to forgive those who do not ask for it.
as I stated earlier in this thread, sure there may be some health benefits to unconditional forgivness, but, if a persons anger is so great that they are actually unhealthy from it, then they most likely cannot forgive unconditionally without fostering a false feeling of happyness toward someone who does not deserve it.
 
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geocajun

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wvmtnkid said:
So it is ok to go around with anger in your heart at someone simply because they have not asked you to forgive them?

If the anger you have for an offense against you is disproportiatnately bigger than the offense, then it can be sinful.
Anger appropriate to the offense is fine - but as scripture tells us, we should not dwell on it long - but again, this does not mean we must forgive those who do not repent, but rather we should not dwell on our anger.
 
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Luke 6: 37-38- "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."

Matthew 5:44 - "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

The way of the world is to "do unto them as they did unto me".... Jesus asks us to step up and act according to His example. The people who persecuted Him didn't ask for His forgiveness, yet some of His final words (before His crucifixion) were "Father, forgive them, for they KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO"...

There are MANY more scriptures about forgiveness that talk about doing it regardless if the person asks, than there are saying to forgive if they DO ask.... and please check out the context of the verses you quote before telling someone else they're taking things out of context- and know what other verses say on the subject ... there are verses with specific contexts to the situation being discussed, and there are verses with overall messages as to how we are to relate to others..... all useful, but ya can't just pick something out because it says what you need to say..... sort of like taking the verse 'Jesus wept', and saying the whole Bible is about depression..... NOT!!!!:wave:
 
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