Christianity used as asprin

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There is a misconception that Christianity is some form of pill that is a cure all towards salvation. This could not be further from the truth. Christianity is special in that those who are chosen by God himself before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame in him in love. Christianity is a fulfilling of prophecy that was kept hidden in God until God revealed it unto Paul and the apostles and prophets after the day of pentecost. Christianity is the replacing of those fallen angels that fell with Lucifer - 1/3 of all the angels that were in heaven. Three in the word of God means complete. When the body of Christ is full, then God will send his Son to gather up the Christians to make heaven complete once again.
In our society today and in the society of the past years, Christianity has been taught as the way of and too salvation. This is not what the scriptures tell us. The word of God pertaining to Christianity says - We are saved by grace and not by works lest any man should boast. If one boasts that he or she is a Christian then they are by this boasting, are wrong in their beliefs. Being saved by grace is just that - salvation by grace and not of works. There is nothing that we as Christians ( those chosen before the foundation of the world ) can, could have done, or should do in the future that can make us Christians. Although there is something we can do to remain Christians.
Many are told that if you become a Christian then you will not go to hell. This is a misrepresentation of the truth to protect a lie from the author of the lie himself. Hell is the grave, and the grave is where we are all headed unless Christ comes to gather up the Church at this very moment or in the near future while we are still alive at his coming. In the word of God , God is the saviour of all men - I Timothy 4:10. He did this by sending his Son into the world to suffer and die and God himself raised up his Son from the dead. With this salvation all men are saved. What is important to understand here is that salvation does not mean that everyone ( all men ) are now Christians because of this salvation. This means all men are saved and that is all it means except for the full understanding of what being saved means.
Christianity is a specific salvation. This salvation is understood through the knowledge of the Mystery that was revealed unto Paul and the apostles and prophets. Let me also explain that the salvation of the world is not the salvation of the body of Christ in which is where the Christians are. By God sending his Son into the world, Jesus Christ by his free willingness to give of himself, his life , did so not only for Christians, but for the world - John 4:42.
Jesus Christ's giving of himself could only be accomplished by his Father giving of his Son first. Then Jesus Christ the Son of God gave of himself freely that all might be saved . Salvation was accomplished by God and his Son in that God gave of his Son and his Son gave of himself. Not only was salvation given to the whole world, it was given also to all men ( mankind ). One other verse should be looked at - Ephesians 5:23 - "For the husband is the head of the wife , even as Christ is the head of the church; and he is the saviour of the body" In the book of Ephesians , Paul sets down for the Christians to understand the their salvation is special only in that they are a part of the body of Christ to fullfill that which is not complete at this time. Christianity also sets the standard for understanding the true - one - God. Paul writes in Ephesians 5:24 one of those standards for Christians - "Therefore as the Chruch is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing"
God wants the example of the knowledge of the Mystery to bring forth that which is decent and in order the understanding of God himself. In verse 25 we see another example of these standards for Christians - "Husband, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it"
What we have to understand here is that Christ gave himself for the Church because of his love for the Church. This does not take away from the fact that Jesus Christ, in always doing his Father's will, died also for the world as stated above. This is one of the interesting things about reading the word of God, that Jesus Christ died for and because he love the church, which is his body and his bride. There is not a scripture in the word of God that says that Jesus Christ died because he loved the world. The scriptures do say that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. This is a very important difference and should be understood to fully understand God's word. Jesus Christ did his Father's will to die. Jesus Christ did it because of his love for the body , his bride. God's love was for the world and so by giving of his Son he has shown his love for the world.
A quick mention here of the three salvations ( places of salvation ). The first is heaven to replace the one third fallen angels and this salvation is called Christianity. The second salvation is unto paradise, in which those who are saved not unto Christianity are saved unto God by way of Christ's death and resurrection. The third salvation is unto the lake of fire and this salvation is as much forever as the other two salvations are. This is where those who reject God in every way are put. An example would be that a "murderer" has no place in the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is going to be established in the New Jerusalem also called the New earth and also called the third earth.
God is going to set his throne up upon and in this New Jerusalem etc.

So in conclusion we can see that Christianity should never be looked at as a cure all for salvation. Christianity is just one of the three salvations and who is a part of this salvation is not up to us to choose. We choose because we have been chosen is the way to look at it. It should never be looked at as we choose because it is left up to us to choose. Christian and non Christians are saved and it is not because we did something special to be saved. God did the saving through his Son Jesus Christ, whether it is salvation as a Christian or non Christian, the whole world has been saved , even those who are going to the lake of fire. The choices we make now are to stay faithful to the calling in which we have been called unto. The only salvation that no one is called unto is the salvation unto the lake of fire. This is why the word of God says - "Many are called but few are chosen" Many will go to paradise - the New Jerusalem - the New earth - the Third earth, but few will go to heaven as chosen Christians.
Now, God is no respector of persons and with this knowledge we must understand that Christians and non Christians are not look at by God as one being special over the other as they are both of two sets of God's children.( as Job )

This is why Christianity should never be looked at as the cure all or asprin effect unto the world. It in and of itself is only one of the three salvations as God has already saved the world by giving of his Son to suffer and die for all men ( mankind ) and God raised him from the dead so that all might be saved , either unto Christianity salvation ( chosen ) or unto paradise salvation.

God bless both Christian and non Christians through God's Son's name Christ Jesus.

Love IN Christ - Hervey.
 
Nick:

John 3:16 does not say what you claim that it says !

You got Mark 16:16 correct, but apparently do not understand the word "damned". Greek word - "katakrino" - to judge

What you are doing, is adding to the Word, to please you and your beliefs.

John 3:16 is talking about salvation unto everlasting life
Mark 16:16 is talking about Christian salvation and baptism, and the judgment seat of God - (damned).

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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Nick_Loves_Abba

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Uh May I ask how I did that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life .

Let us look at what "Everlasting Life" means.

Eternal, applied to God Gen: 21:33, Deu: 33:27 Psa: 41:13, Psa: 90:2. We also read of the "everlasting hills" Gen: 49:26 an "everlasting priesthood" Exo: 40:15; Num: 25:13

This expression "everlasting life" occurs in the Old Testament only in Dan: 12:2

It occurs frequently in the New Testament Mat:7:14, Mat: 18:8-9 . Luk: :18. It comprises the whole future of the redeemed Luk: 16:9 and is opposed to "eternal punishment" Mat: 19:29, Mat: 25:46. It is the final reward and glory into which the children of God enter 1Ti: 6:12, 1Ti: 6:19, Rom: 6:22, Gal: 6:8, 1Ti: 1:16, Rom: 5:21, their Sabbath of rest Heb: 4:9 comp. Heb: 12:22.

Here's the one I like - Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Why doesn't John 3:16 say what I said it says? If that passage does not say all who believe will gain everlasting life, then tell me what it means Hervey.

Now on Mark 16:16...

Here's Strong's. 2632 katakrino kat-ak-ree'-no to judge against, i.e. sentence:--condemn, damn.

People with everlasting life arent condemned my friend, no, people with everlasting life live in paradise.

I guess I just didn't understand what you wrote when you accussed me if switching words for my own belief... could you elaborate please kind sir :rolleyes:
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Hey Nick, glad your getting good use of these boards! As with the topic at hand you seem to have some good stuff posted. Really have nothing else to add in that I totally agree with your point of view, basiclly right on the mark.
 
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Nick:

Salvation is one thing, and Christianity is another . Christians are saved from before the foundation of the world, and they were predestined. All others still need to be saved, and salvation is available. But salvation does not mean that they are made a Christian because they claim their salvation.

What you need to learn and study is what predestination means biblically. Start by reading Ephesians chapters one and two.

Talk to you after you have read these two chapters.

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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Nick:

Like I said, lets start with Ephesians chapters one and two, and deal with what it means to be predestined.

And the word "Christian" does not mean Christ like, it means "Christ IN" . Even the anti-christ is Christ like . Did you ever consider that truth ?

Talk with you again after you have read chapters one and two of Ephesians.

God Bless

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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Where did "Christian" get it's meaning? According to Easton:

Christian

the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were "brethren," "the faithful," "elect," "saints," "believers." But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name "Christian" came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs but three times in the New Testament (Act_11:26; Act_26:28; 1Pe_4:16).

According to Meriam-Webster:

Main Entry: 1Chris·tian
Pronunciation: 'kris-ch&n, 'krish-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & n., from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date: 1526
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : DISCIPLE 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961
2 : the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress
 
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Nick:

What I am trying to do, is to establish a starting point that we can discuss from.

I am encouraging you to read the revelation already given from within the Word of God, that clearly shows us that the few were predestined. Why do you seem to be so unwilling to read two chapters in Ephesians, so that we can continue our discussion ?

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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VOW

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To Hervey:

In Ephesians, Paul is preaching to the Gentiles, and his intention is to share with them that they, too, can be included in "God's Chosen People," through the gift of salvation. It was God's intention never to exclude any, hence the reference to "before the foundations of the world."

Predestination is a Calvinist teaching, and can be argued vehemently from both sides of the coin.

However, I find it difficult that a letter by Paul can supercede the promises of Jesus in the Gospels, namely the famous verse of salvation quoted above, John 3:16.

"For God so loved the World" doesn't contain any exclusionary language.

Part of the problem when the Apostles began to spread the Gospel was to unify the church into the single Body of Christ. This was an extremely difficult task, and often the Gentiles felt they were second-class compared to the Jews. Paul's letter to the Ephesians was to show that we are all equal in God's eyes.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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Nick:

In Ephesians it tells us that those whom God has chosen from before the foundation of the World, are to be holy and without blame in him (IN Christ) in love. And it goes on to say, that those whom he has chosen were predestined, and that we who were predestined, were also seated with Christ in the heavenlies on the right hand of God.

I thought this would be a good place to start our discussion. But I still see there is some hesitancy on your part - why ?

Not everyone that is saved goes to heaven. The malefactor on the cross with Jesus is a good example. Jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise, not heaven. On the other hand, those chosen from before the foundations of the world, are in heaven with Christ , sitting on the right hand of God with Christ.

Is this a satisfactory beginning for our discussion ?

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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Nick_Loves_Abba

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Here's the thief on the cross scripture:

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise .

Seems to me Jesus is going to be in paradise. That either means Jesus won't be in heaven, or paradise and heaven are one in the same.

Let me state those verses came directly from Jesus.
 
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NicK:

Paradise is the New Earth, and there is also a New Heaven, both places are significant. And Jesus can go into both places, but certain one's will end up in heaven and others will end up in the New Earth.

You forgot to mention my comments about predestination ! Which ties into the mentioned comment.

Love IN Christ - HErvey
 
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I've been reading these posts and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. First you all need to read Titus 3:9.

Next, anyone can take a passage of scripture and make it prove their point. Some examples - I can show you three ways in the book of Acts to receive the Holy Ghost (when in fact for us it's only one), I can also show you passages that state you must be baptized in order to be saved (directly contrary to the book of Romans), I can also show you passages that seem to indicate that a person could lose their salvation (contrary to Ephesians which says were are sealed with the Spirit until the day of redemption). Remember that scripture MUST, MUST, MUST bear itself out with other scripture and that it will never contradict itself. Hervey, your reference to the thief on the cross is taken out of its context. Jesus referred to Paradise because He had not yet conquered death, hell, and the grave so the people saved up to that point in time dwelt in paradise. Once Jesus rose the 3rd day conquering death, hell, and the grave. Those saints went on to Heaven.

It is true that God knows all. But there is a huge difference between knowing and acting. When God foreordained or predestined from the foundation of the world, Paul was referring to God's plan of salvation for mankind not to specific individual people who would be allowed into heaven. To believe that someone is predestined to be in Heaven means you must also believe that since God ordained it, the person’s choice has nothing to do with it. Our choice has everything to do with our salvation. God will not force us to do anything. We must admit, believe, and confess to receive salvation. There are not many plans for salvation, only one. Through and by the blood of Jesus Christ. And just as there is one reward for those who are lost(hell), there is one reward for those who are saved(heaven).

Nick: Just thought I'd let you know, you're not going to win this argument. Hervey apparently has studied what he believes and has scripture to back it up. My advice....it's not worth the effort. Let it go.

Hervey: My advice....instead of knowing what you believe and studying the bible to prove it. Try studying the bible for what it says as a whole (not just Ephesians) and let that be what you believe. I will be in Heaven one day. That is a promise I have from Jesus Himself. From what you believe I hope you're one of the lucky few that will be there as well.

I will not post to this thread again, as I feel this discussion/argument serves no purpose. You will not change my mind about this and it appears that yours will not be changed either. My intent is not to insult anyone in any way and I hope my comments are not taken in such a manner.

God Bless
 
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Jim:

Quote: . Jesus referred to Paradise because He had not yet conquered death, hell, and the grave so the people saved up to that point in time dwelt in paradise. Once Jesus rose the 3rd day conquering death, hell, and the grave. Those saints went on to Heaven.


Jim: To not continue in this conversation is to say that you are right and what I have said is wrong, without you willing to defend your thoughts . That is your choice of course, but what you said in this quote is totally not true according to scripture !

You claim that the "saints" in the grave waited for Jesus to conquer death, hell, and the grave, then they went to heaven. There is no scripture to back up such a claim ! Nor is there any scripture that tells us that paradise is a place that the dead wait until such a time that you claim.

Even in Acts 2:34 it tells us that David is still in the grave.

In I Corinthians 15:23 it tells us that Christ was the first fruit of being raised from the dead , and it also tells us in this verse , that those who are Christ's will be raised from the dead at his coming (gathering)(I Thess. 4:13 - 18)

At the very least Jim, I needed to cast down your imagination that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God - II Corinth. 10:5.

Jim, you can remain deceived about your imagination of what the scriptures say, but don't encourage others to follow your deceitful imagination that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God.

Love IN Christ - Hervey
 
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Many are called but few are chosen: The last shall be first and the first shall be last - Matthew 20:16

All those called,and all those chosen, are to be drawn unto Jesus Christ.

John 6:44 - "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him : and I will raise him up at the last day"

John 10:26 - "But ye believe not , because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you"

verse 27 - "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me"

verse 28 - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand"

Verse 29 - "My Father , which gave them me is greater than all ; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand"

Predestination of those whom the Father has given unto His Son, are the sheep that hear the voice of the shepherd, and follow him.

John 10:16 - "And other sheep I have , which are not of this fold : them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice ; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd" (two folds become one - eventually)(The many which are called and the few that were chosen from before the foundation of the world, to be holy and without blame IN Christ in love).


Love IN Christ - - Hervey
 
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