Biblical precendent for women divorcing their husbands?

Cammie said:

Overall the Bible has an inherently 'male theme' (his, him, he). So does that mean that verses that are themed male do not apply to women? Because if one verse doesn't, then none of them should, right?

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This comment has yet to be addressed. Either the Word applies to both sexes or it doesn't. Which is it?

Cammie said:

This comment has yet to be addressed. Either the Word applies to both sexes or it doesn't. Which is it?

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I think it depends on which scripture you're reading. The Bible can't be over-generalized in that way, even though I understand what you're saying. The Word does apply to both sexes, but is not always speaking to both sexes when it says man or men; depends on the context. Interesting question though.

- blitzn

desi said:

Again, I didn't say it Jesus did. For me to look at something Jesus said and say it means something different would be wrong. Just because Jesus did not say women are not supposed to lust in that particular passage does not mean it is okay if they do.

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this is getting tedious,i advise u pray to God for spiritual wisdom in interpreting the Bible-it was clearl referring to men and women,im amazed that someone wouldnt know that.

Desi--I think you're picking and choosing which verses you want to apply to women and which ones you don't.

Rethink my position. Why don't you let this settle and rethink yours? For 14 years, I watched my father bring women into his and my mother's bed while she was at work (2nd and 3rd shift). For 14 years, my father mistreated my mother, sister and I in various emotional and physical ways. Do you think God was honored in that situation? Do you think that marriage was honored in God's eyes? I certainly don't. My mother finally kicked my father out when I was 14 years old, and I can tell you from a firsthand experience that God blessed us greatly after my mother stopped being a doormat. He gave my mother a wonderful man, and gave my sister and I a wonderful father figure.

The Bible may say "men," or "man" in some verses, but I don't believe that God would have blessed my family the way he did after my parents' divorce if it was so totally against His will. If men can divorce their wives for adultery, then I believe wholeheartedly that women (who have a lot more to worry about since men are much more sexually charged) have every right to leave a man that can't be with just their wife. And Desi--I guarantee you'd have a different attitude if you'd have seen your mother go through what mine did.

desi said:

You're right. If I stare at it long enough I see... pink elephants. Nope still says men.

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Your response says it all-agian i urge u ...ask for WISDOM.

Cammie, I agree with you 100% God does not suppor marriages that are not honoring him.

Desi, why is it that you say women cannot divorce their husbands, simply because of the use of his/her, but the verse about lust applies to both sexes? You are using a double standard. If you honestly think God would want someone to remain in a relationship that is blatantly disrespecting him, causing his children to suffer, then I think you are very very mistaken. I also think it is highly insensitive of you to make judgements on a subject that you obviously know nothing about. God knows our hearts and our intentions, and he understand the desire of a woman to no longer accept abuse, he understands the desire of a woman to protect herself and her children from an ungodly relationship. Put yourself in other people's shoes, think about their motives, about their hearts, while none of us can have a full picture of other people's intentions, God does, and he knows that people who divorce to escape abuse are not doing it with malice towards God.

What a touchy subject. Talk about being thrown into the fire. But remember that when three were thrown into the fire, four were walking there. God is always with us. I don't advocate violence or abuse or extramarital affairs or anything else like that, but I do trust my Lord completely. This is not saying to be a doormat. I'm suggesting that we allow Someone who knows our husbands hearts and has the ability to change him to work in his life without our intereference. Our job as a wife is to be a gentle and submissive soul, not to tell our husband what to do or to interefere with God's plan. There is a reason, and we should do what God has told us to do and watch for results.

"If the temper of a ruler rises up against you, do not leave your place, for gentleness and calmness prevent great offenses." Ecclesiastes 10:4 "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps...and while being reviled, He did not revile in return, while suffering He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously." This is from 1 Peter 2. Right after that in 1 Peter 3 it says "In the same way, wives are to submit to their husbands as He submitted to God, His Heavenly Father." How can we have trust in a man who is hurting us? We don't. We have trust in God who is that man's authority. Sarah's husband Abraham asked her to do some things that were just downright wrong. But she submitted to Abraham's God given authority over her and did as he asked and SHE was blessed and protected by God while Abraham was held accountable for his actions. Romans 13:1 says "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."

Our Father knew who we were going to marry before we were born. He allows even bad situations and will use it for our good, if we can stop thinking about what to do and how to get out of it and trust Him and concentrate on God's purpose for that suffering. God is big enough to bring us through the worst situations. He can close the mouths of lions even today. And he can even turn abusive people into Godly men (and women). The abuser is not the problem; satan is. Have faith and search scripture as to why God is allowing this in your life, then obey what God has told us to do and watch for results!

mollyj said:

What a touchy subject. Talk about being thrown into the fire. But remember that when three were thrown into the fire, four were walking there. God is always with us. I don't advocate violence or abuse or extramarital affairs or anything else like that, but I do trust my Lord completely. This is not saying to be a doormat. I'm suggesting that we allow Someone who knows our husbands hearts and has the ability to change him to work in his life without our intereference. Our job as a wife is to be a gentle and submissive soul, not to tell our husband what to do or to interefere with God's plan. There is a reason, and we should do what God has told us to do and watch for results.

"If the temper of a ruler rises up against you, do not leave your place, for gentleness and calmness prevent great offenses." Ecclesiastes 10:4 "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps...and while being reviled, He did not revile in return, while suffering He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously." This is from 1 Peter 2. Right after that in 1 Peter 3 it says "In the same way, wives are to submit to their husbands as He submitted to God, His Heavenly Father." How can we have trust in a man who is hurting us? We don't. We have trust in God who is that man's authority. Sarah's husband Abraham asked her to do some things that were just downright wrong. But she submitted to Abraham's God given authority over her and did as he asked and SHE was blessed and protected by God while Abraham was held accountable for his actions. Romans 13:1 says "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."

Our Father knew who we were going to marry before we were born. He allows even bad situations and will use it for our good, if we can stop thinking about what to do and how to get out of it and trust Him and concentrate on God's purpose for that suffering. God is big enough to bring us through the worst situations. He can close the mouths of lions even today. And he can even turn abusive people into Godly men (and women). The abuser is not the problem; satan is. Have faith and search scripture as to why God is allowing this in your life, then obey what God has told us to do and watch for results!

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You go girl!

- blitzn

I'm with you. That was a terrific post by mollyj.

Here's my take on what the Bible has to say about divorce. As far as I understand it, the Bible condones divorceless separation if the situation has decayed so badly that one spouse simply cannot live with the other. Marriage is for life; living together is not. Also, note that the only one of the four gospels that mentions the possibility of divorce for unfaithfulness is Matthew, the gospel written to the Jews. The three gospels written to the gentiles mention no exceptions. Another point to keep in mind is that the Jews practiced the tradition of betrothal IIRC. The ties in betrothal were strong, even stronger than in engagement, second only to marriage itself. This exception clause was targeted at betrothal, not marriage.

Cammie, before I say anything to you, know that I do not claim to understand your situation or comprehend the sheer terror that you had to deal with as a child. Nobody should have to deal with that as a child. As for your mother's decision to divorce, I think she picked the lesser of two evils. You have to deal with the pain of divorce but not the trauma of an abusive father. I would not necessarily have recommended re-marriage for your mom, but I do wish the best of luck for you all, as I trust that the worst is truly over.

Rising Tree said:

I'm with you. That was a terrific post by mollyj.

Here's my take on what the Bible has to say about divorce. As far as I understand it, the Bible condones divorceless separation if the situation has decayed so badly that one spouse simply cannot live with the other. Marriage is for life; living together is not. Also, note that the only one of the four gospels that mentions the possibility of divorce for unfaithfulness is Matthew, the gospel written to the Jews. The three gospels written to the gentiles mention no exceptions. Another point to keep in mind is that the Jews practiced the tradition of betrothal IIRC. The ties in betrothal were strong, even stronger than in engagement, second only to marriage itself. This exception clause was targeted at betrothal, not marriage.

Cammie, before I say anything to you, know that I do not claim to understand your situation or comprehend the sheer terror that you had to deal with as a child. Nobody should have to deal with that as a child. As for your mother's decision to divorce, I think she picked the lesser of two evils. You have to deal with the pain of divorce but not the trauma of an abusive father. I would not necessarily have recommended re-marriage for your mom, but I do wish the best of luck for you all, as I trust that the worst is truly over.

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Rising Tree,

The funny thing is that yesterday I had started writing something along the EXACT same lines as what you mentioned in your post, but hadn't finished writing it yet. Funny.

I'm no scholar by any means, but as you mention, technically it looks like divorce (as we define it) isn't permitted at all biblically! Most people (including me a few months ago) think the "exception clause" gives them a "way out" and although it is a way out, it's not God's best for us; also, even if it was an "exception clause" for gentiles, that statement was made by Jesus to the men he was talking to (Jews as you mentioned) concerning their wives, not "men" men and women. This gets back to the theme of this thread.

From Matthew 19:3 (KJV)...

"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

It's pretty clear how God feels about divorce period, Malachi 2:14...
(This is LITV. "sending away" (or "putting away" in other translations) in verse 16 means divorce; notice the word "hates")

"Yet you say, On what cause? Because Jehovah has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously; and she is your companion and your covenant wife. 15 And has He not made you one? Yet the vestige of the Spirit is in him. And what of the one? He was seeking a seed of God. Then guard your spirit, and do not deal treacherously with the wife of your youth. 16 Jehovah, the God of Israel, says, He hates sending away, and to cover with violence on his garment, says Jehovah of Hosts. Then guard your spirit and do not act treacherously."

This scripture speaks to men being deceptive to their wives in any way and where it leads, and is again addressing men (males, not "men" men and women).

Many times God's way is not the easy way, but it does lead to great blessings and glory to Him. We can't condem or judge folks that have made those decisions because we are not them. We are resposible only for our own actions, and accountable to God for them.

I'm on that road right now with my marriage. I made mistakes. I let my God and my wife down, but I have made changes (glory be to God) and I expect nothing short of a miracle for my marriage, according to God's Word and His promises:

"so shall My Word be, which goes out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in what I sent it to do!"

What else do we need?! Woo hoo!

- blitzn

I still say that God allows exceptions even if they are not found in the bible. Common sense exceptions. I am thankful that I don't have to be the one to judge what those are specifically for everyone.
One has to look at the overall pattern of someone's life and their heart intentions , not just one incident which seems to not confrom to the bible strictly.
Also there is much grace for our faults even when we choose the wrong exceptions in a sincere way but we just "missed it" on that one.
If even the pharisees made exceptions who were known for being way too strict on everything, I think then that our super strictness which exceeds even theres is going too far.

[updown] JUST MY OPINION [/updown]

Yitzchak said:

I still say that God allows exceptions even if they are not found in the bible. Common sense exceptions. I am thankful that I don't have to be the one to judge what those are specifically for everyone.
One has to look at the overall pattern of someone's life and their heart intentions , not just one incident which seems to not confrom to the bible strictly.
Also there is much grace for our faults even when we choose the wrong exceptions in a sincere way but we just "missed it" on that one.
If even the pharisees made exceptions who were known for being way too strict on everything, I think then that our super strictness which exceeds even theres is going too far.

[updown] JUST MY OPINION [/updown]

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I guess I would say that the point really isn't about strictness, but the Word of God. It is what it is. We all have to decide what that means to us because as like I said, we are all responsible and accountable to God for our own actions...

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17 (KJV)

Praise Jesus that there's grace!! I've "missed it" many times and I'm sure will make many mistakes in the future - but there is grace through His sacrifice. Glory be to God!

- blitzn