Christianity all over the news...

Rae · Aug 27, 2003

America's schools were started, originally, by Christians.
--FYI, Catholic schools got started so that Protestants couldn't push their religion onto Catholic kids. Did you know that's how your fellow Christians treated them?

STS:
Isn't your god strong enough to stand without being shoved down someones throat??
--My Gods are.

And yes, I'd oppose Pagan actions that are similar to these any day.

- All people who disagree with their Christian view are secretly part of that conspiracy. I haven't been invited to a meeting. What gives?
--I haven't either. Let me know if you're ever notified of one, okay?

- All non-Christians hate God and those who worship him. Dang. I thought good things could come from godly belief, and I thought I loved my religious friends and family. I stand corrected.
--Funny, I thought I loved the Gods. I thought I didn't mind if others believe in different Gods than mine, as long as they don't persecute me for my belief or try to get state sponsorship for theirs, which is prohibited by the Constitution.

- That if we voice opposition to being forced to worship Christ, that we are evil and trying to remove all religion from the face of the nation. Sorry, I wouldn't want to leave my daughter alone for a minute with these people, much less have them teach her this bunk. What I wold like are comprehensive Religion classes.
--That would be nice. It probably won't happen, though.

- That there is a double-secret evil group of people who are conspiring to destroy heterosexality and Christianity. Again, if I am one of them, why have I not been invited to a meeting? Secret handshake?
--Why would I want to destroy heterosexuality? I LIKE being heterosexual. Why would I want to destroy "Christianity"? Good Christians, like Dr. Martin Luther King, Rev. Barry Lynn, C.S. Lewis, and so on, are worth their weight in gold. I would like to restrict tyrannies from being put into place in the name of Christianity, of course, but that's about it.

RaptureTicketHolder · Aug 27, 2003

xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
"And yes, xtx, there is scripture for such events. Can you find it?"

I can find scritpure against it.

"Get to know your Christianity"

Thank you for the inferior remark. I know my christianity, and I know the judge moore is NOT doing what God would want him too.

Please read my other statements about Roy Moore.

Not to mention the whole lesbian issue, aren't leaders to be above reproach???

hmmmmm

Morning Greetings xtx

Lets see, how about you post the scripture you feel is against it and our conversation will go from there.

With my suggesting that you get to know your Christianity, Im sure once all is said and done here, you will come to know what you did not before this. You have some interesting thoughts, but I believe there are things here you are not seeing.

As to being above repoach, have a look at Romans 12. There is plenty in that chapter that can speak to leadership.

I see many Christian leaders staying above reproach. I think if you want this fully explored, you might wish to add some detail to your thoughts here.

Im sure we will have an enjoyable conversation exploring what Christianity really means in today's news and how we should apply ourselves while being in the world but not of the world.

RaptureTicketHolder · Aug 27, 2003

Morning Greetings Strat. Interesting questions. I hope we will enjoy finding the answers.

strathyboy said:
Can you point out the verse where it is stated "thou shalt not endorse the separation of church and state"? How about "thou shalt ensure that the state endorses one religion over another"?

You bet! Even the everyday pagan knows the following about Christianity:

Exodus 20
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before [1] me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

Deuteronomy 6
13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Now, those few verses are umong many found in the Old Testiment, the foundation of Christianity, speaking to the believer that the Lord will tolerate nothing else but following him aka the Christian way.

And blatant intolerance and disobedience is going to win nobody to the cause of Christianity. How many will it lose? If the end goal is to win as many converts to the faith as possible, how in the world does this help?

Revelation 2

To the church in Ephesus

1"To the angel[1] of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.

Those folks who wish not to endure the guidence and support of Christianity can not possibly be won, Strat.

I note you and others scoff when homosexuals take a stand about something. But if a Christian takes a stand, it must be God inspired, right?

I totally welcome anyone's stand because it will then open the doors for the Lord to be heard!

God is going to punish you in the afterlife.

Reward is given to all, Strat. Even your efforts here are recorded and will receive their due. That I trust in.

strathyboy · Aug 27, 2003

RaptureTicketHolder said:
You bet! Even the everyday pagan knows the following about Christianity:

Exodus 20
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before [1] me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

Deuteronomy 6
13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name. 14 Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; 15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

Now, those few verses are umong many found in the Old Testiment, the foundation of Christianity, speaking to the believer that the Lord will tolerate nothing else but following him aka the Christian way.

Those verses are irrelevant to the separation of church and state issue. Obviously, those verses would preclude worship of the state, but nobody is forcing you to worship the state.

RaptureTicketHolder said:
Those folks who wish not to endure the guidence and support of Christianity can not possibly be won, Strat.

That sounds like a good way to absolve any Christian of any responsibility for turning people away from the flock. If, through your actions, you turn people away (as Judge Moore is doing), you must take responsibility for that action.

RaptureTicketHolder said:
Reward is given to all, Strat. Even your efforts here are recorded and will receive their due. That I trust in.

Thank you for taking half a statement and using it out of context. You and brother Christman seem to be of the belief that unless all Christians agree with you in every single facet of Christianity they are doomed to hell; I merely pointed it out.
I hope my efforts here are recorded and will reveive their due. Someone has to be the voice of reason around these parts, and God knows too many have already disqualified themselves. Blessed are the peace-makers.

Force · Aug 27, 2003

xtxArchxAngelxtx said:
The simple fact that this topic has gotten 8 pages in 24 hours proves my point quite clearly...

We are all over the news due to the fact that so many of us christians are screwed up.

News creates debates, and oh my has it created one here today. What are we going to do about it?

Are we going to sit here and watch us christians destroy ourselves and let the media make mockery out of us? (refering to the priest that was is jail due to petaphellia and the austic bo who died at a prayer service). I am not too worried about Moore, God will see to it that he gets what he desirves, whether awards or discipline, maybe both.

I want this country to be 100% sold out to God... the simple thing is, it's not fair to those who are not... even God gives us free will in religion, and f we are going to be a God centered country, then we should give those others the same free will.

First of all you if you trust the media, you are doomed.....They are ALL biased, not ALL of it is true and researched...and young impressionable little minds will be swayed by the media far more than any preacher.

The fact is that the media blows MANY things out of proportion.

1. OVERKILL. This pretty much explains itself. Does anyone remember the Buckwheat skit with Eddie Murphy on SNL, Who shot buckwheat I think it was....

2. MISS-STATING THE FACTS (every religious zealot or church in the world somehow gets portrayed as christianity according to your wonderful media) The church who killed the little boy NOT CHRISTIAN, among countless others who "say they are christian" but they are not.

Even the media can be swayed........................Dude watch Chicago (That movie is great) anyways look at the media in that movie...I thought it was a perfect portrayal. "The both reached for the gun" with the little puppets. NICE!

What it comes down to is this........

The people who will pay are called hypocrites, who say "I AM CHRISTIAN" yet turn around and either A....Do nothing....or B. Live a sinful life. Those are who the bible talks about being lukewarm. Those are they people who lead even other christians astray.......................

Firscherscherling · Aug 27, 2003

Force said:
First of all you if you trust the media, you are doomed.....They are ALL biased, not ALL of it is true and researched...and young impressionable little minds will be swayed by the media far more than any preacher.

The fact is that the media blows MANY things out of proportion.

1. OVERKILL. This pretty much explains itself. Does anyone remember the Buckwheat skit with Eddie Murphy on SNL, Who shot buckwheat I think it was....

2. MISS-STATING THE FACTS (every religious zealot or church in the world somehow gets portrayed as christianity according to your wonderful media) The church who killed the little boy NOT CHRISTIAN, among countless others who "say they are christian" but they are not.

Even the media can be swayed........................Dude watch Chicago (That movie is great) anyways look at the media in that movie...I thought it was a perfect portrayal. "The both reached for the gun" with the little puppets. NICE!

What it comes down to is this........

The people who will pay are called hypocrites, who say "I AM CHRISTIAN" yet turn around and either A....Do nothing....or B. Live a sinful life. Those are who the bible talks about being lukewarm. Those are they people who lead even other christians astray.......................

Classic. I know you guys get upset when negative stories show up in the news about Christians, but it isn't just Christians. Our country digs negative news. Pick an issue near and dear to you and no doubt you will feel it is not portrayed as positively as you like.

And sorry, but when Jerry Falwell blames homosexuals and other 'sinners' for the 9-11 attacks, it is not our fault. A jerk's a jerk. When Roberston prays not for wisdom on the court, but that ill health of the members will clear it, it is not our fault. A jerk's a jerk. Not your fault either, but don't expexct it to be ignored. Maybe you should ask them to shut up.

I love how Christian sinners can look at the sins of others and proclaim, "They are not Christians!" How convenient. The glutton lies in his chair, all the while begging forgiveness, yet gluttoning himself none the less, while pointing the finger at his neighbor. A man full of sloth sits on his rear, all the while asking forgiveness but never working except to expend the energy required to pelt his neighbor with stones. A sweet lady is an adultress, all the while begging for forgiveness, yet an adultress none the less, all while pointing the finger at their neighbor. The killer revels in the death of another by his own hand or the hand of another, all the while begging forgiveness, but still a killer today and tomorrow, all while calling their neighbor a non-Christian sinner.

Seems to me that Christians are people with mirrors. Non-Christians are people with windows (and binoculars).

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

RaptureTicketHolder said:
Morning Greetings xtx

Lets see, how about you post the scripture you feel is against it and our conversation will go from there.

With my suggesting that you get to know your Christianity, Im sure once all is said and done here, you will come to know what you did not before this. You have some interesting thoughts, but I believe there are things here you are not seeing.

As to being above repoach, have a look at Romans 12. There is plenty in that chapter that can speak to leadership.

I see many Christian leaders staying above reproach. I think if you want this fully explored, you might wish to add some detail to your thoughts here.

Im sure we will have an enjoyable conversation exploring what Christianity really means in today's news and how we should apply ourselves while being in the world but not of the world.

Do you always look at people as so inferior to yourself??

Anyways, how is Roy Moore above reproach? He's not.
Billy Grahm is above reproach. I know well of romans 12, that is where being above repraoch comes into play.

Tell you what, stop acknowledging me as inferior and saying that I need to "get to know my christianity," treat me as an equal, then we will talk. Everyone is ALWAYS growing, including yourself, and comments like you are making only shows immaturity.

Yitzchak · Aug 27, 2003

Firscherscherling said:
I love how Christian sinners can look at the sins of others and proclaim, "They are not Christians!" How convenient. The glutton lies in his chair, all the while begging forgiveness, yet gluttoning himself none the less, while pointing the finger at his neighbor. A man full of sloth sits on his rear, all the while asking forgiveness but never working except to expend the energy required to pelt his neighbor with stones. A sweet lady is an adultress, all the while begging for forgiveness, yet an adultress none the less, all while pointing the finger at their neighbor. The killer revels in the death of another by his own hand or the hand of another, all the while begging forgiveness, but still a killer today and tomorrow, all while calling their neighbor a non-Christian sinner.

Well said. I think you made your point quite well here. Although I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are using this for illustrating hypocricy and not actually that harsh on all of these people.

Brother Christman · Aug 27, 2003

Inspired said:
World Net is as reliable as STAR."

No news source is objective today, sadly, but World Net's far more reliable than many of your posts here.

Inspired said:
What Agenda? When was the last time a group of homosexuals protested a church and demanding you stop praying?

That's very nearly what they're calling for in muzzling religious free speech in Canada, lobbying the UN, et cetera.

Inspired said:
When was the last time homosexuals wanted to get a law passed saying heterosexuals couldn't get married?

Homosexuals weren't intended to be married and no sane society would ever allow them into such a position to decide. This is like asking "when was the last time alcoholics wanted to get a law passed against the sober?"

Force · Aug 27, 2003

Firscherscherling said:
Classic. I know you guys get upset when negative stories show up in the news about Christians, but it isn't just Christians. Our country digs negative news. Pick an issue near and dear to you and no doubt you will feel it is not portrayed as positively as you like.

And sorry, but when Jerry Falwell blames homosexuals and other 'sinners' for the 9-11 attacks, it is not our fault. A jerk's a jerk. When Roberston prays not for wisdom on the court, but that ill health of the members will clear it, it is not our fault. A jerk's a jerk. Not your fault either, but don't expexct it to be ignored. Maybe you should ask them to shut up.

I love how Christian sinners can look at the sins of others and proclaim, "They are not Christians!" How convenient. The glutton lies in his chair, all the while begging forgiveness, yet gluttoning himself none the less, while pointing the finger at his neighbor. A man full of sloth sits on his rear, all the while asking forgiveness but never working except to expend the energy required to pelt his neighbor with stones. A sweet lady is an adultress, all the while begging for forgiveness, yet an adultress none the less, all while pointing the finger at their neighbor. The killer revels in the death of another by his own hand or the hand of another, all the while begging forgiveness, but still a killer today and tomorrow, all while calling their neighbor a non-Christian sinner.

Seems to me that Christians are people with mirrors. Non-Christians are people with windows (and binoculars).

You know whats funny...is you yourself obviously did not read my whole thing in context.....it was clearly defined into two points.....

1. The media sucks for the most part. (ie Dont believe everything you see on the news)
2. Don't be a hypocrite...

I stated VERY CLEARLY the media blows EVERYTHING out of proportion......including stories about Christianity......Anotherwards if you are going to trust the media outlets instead of doing your own research which most people do....then I can't take anything you say...seriously.

As for what you said when you broke down "the seven deadly sins" (getting a little too much of brad lately huh?) Anyways I agree wholeheartedly which if you read my last paragraph STATES the SAME thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am far from perfect just forgiven.....everyday!

Force · Aug 27, 2003

And XXArchangelXX who said Billy Graham is above reproach......or even Mother Theresa in that matter...do you think they are perfect? No.....But I do believe they changed and lived great Godly lives. But you better believe (especially Billy Graham before he was saved) was not far from reproach......I'm sure especially if you talked to his mother. No one is perfect. Judge Moore is not sinning by putting the 10 commandments there..

RaptureTicketHolder · Aug 27, 2003

xtx,

Im not associating myself with the lukewarm church. As soon as you stop holding their hand, we will be equal.

Regards,
RTH

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

Force said:
And XXArchangelXX who said Billy Graham is above reproach......or even Mother Theresa in that matter...do you think they are perfect? No.....But I do believe they changed and lived great Godly lives. But you better believe (especially Billy Graham before he was saved) was not far from reproach......I'm sure especially if you talked to his mother. No one is perfect. Judge Moore is not sinning by putting the 10 commandments there..

....

What kind of an arguement is that??? Using their childhood against them????

No one is "perfect" when it comes to being above repraoch, but Billy sure does a great job. He will not even get on an elevator alone with a woman. However, Moore now has a lesbian custody issue on his hands...

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

RaptureTicketHolder said:
xtx,

Im not associating myself with the lukewarm church. As soon as you stop holding their hand, we will be equal.

Regards,
RTH

The luke warm church is the era we live in. I choose, just like you, to not be of it.

I am NOT holding thier hand. We are to show them the Love of God, are we not? They ask us to move these ten commandments (which by their rights is LEGAL) b/c Moore put them there 2 years ago. Lets do them a favor and move it and maybe they will start thinking more highly of us, instead of them thinking we are some high power diety that is trying to turn this county into a christian communist. You may find that funny, but the people who need God's love are saying that about us. No way will they even consider listening to us when we come to share the gosspel with them.

Now you tell me that *I* am luke warm???? Forgive me for planning ahead and worring about the future instead of the pettyness of this issue here in the present.

Yitzchak · Aug 27, 2003

I second the motion that Billy Graham and Mother Teresa both have ministered in a way that brings honor to the Lord and are examples of integrity which stand out from the rest.
When a person reaches the point where they need to disrespect mother teresa to make there arguement stick then it is time to take a break and rethink what is being said.
The topic is christianity in the news by tha way in case some have lost track of that.

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

Yitzchak said:
I second the motion that Billy Graham and Mother Teresa both have ministered in a way that brings honor to the Lord and are examples of integrity which stand out from the rest.
When a person reaches the point where they need to disrespect mother teresa to make there arguement stick then it is time to take a break and rethink what is being said.

I got your back Yitzchak

Yitzchak · Aug 27, 2003

Perhaps when we finally get tired of beating up on the world (which in my view is done simply because they make an easy target). Perhaps then we can address some of the real problems which are under our jurisdiction as a church.(pun intended)
1 Corinthians 11:31
" But if we judged ourselves we would not come under judgement"

This verse is in regards to partaking of The Lord's supper which is to remind us of his death. For what reason did he die?

Most of these problems in this nation are because of the church not because of the world anyway. We must start with the church if we want to change this nation. Not beat up on those who are outside the church.

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

Yitzchak:
Do you believe that ten commandments monumnet caused us to "beat up" non christians?

RaptureTicketHolder · Aug 27, 2003

xtx

Surly you dont believe that doing what they want, defying GOD, is showing them GODs love?

You seem to put by the wayside so many other things GOD calls on the Christian to do.

Consider:

Romans 13
10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

and even:
Matthew 24

9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

It is totally necessary to have GOD in the public arena. When you shelter, nay shun, GOD to "fulfull" the needs of the ungodly, you do them an even greater dis-service than keeping GOD before them with His icons. This is not out of love that such an act is made on their behalf. It is, rather, convience.

This is not a time of tolerance. Its not a time of cheek turning. This is a time of testing, to see just where the stand with GOD is, not casting lots with Thyatira.

Revelation's writer reminds us that those who stand firm to the end in HIM will be saved. Standing firm? No better time than the present!

xtxArchxAngelxtx · Aug 27, 2003

Gee Rapture, maybe thats why the Monument is still there! God surely backed that all the way up!

"Revelation's writer reminds us that those who stand firm to the end in HIM will be saved. Standing firm? No better time than the present!"

ok... two things rapture, then I hoping to go to bed in peace...

One, we are close to the end times, but we are not in the tribulation... Those who will be in the tribulation will be those who aren't saved. OF COURSE THEY ARE SUPOSSED TO STAND FIRM TO GOD THEN!!!

2nd.

I am already saved. I am standing firm to the love and devotion we are to have TO OTHERS WHO ARE SEEKING THAT LOVE. How will they find if we don't give it????
Taking away that monument (which should not have been there in the first place) was taking away the "God given" rights of those who do not believe in God. What is the problem?? I'll tell you what the problem is. Moore, and many others, were too caught up in the "conscience" and pride to let go of a piece of rock, which robs peoples rights. and just to throw this tid bit in.... THE MONUMNET DOES NOTHING FOR OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

That rock is not Holy.

Burn every bible in america, would we be upset??? I sure hope not, infact I hope we embrase the challenge and that will teach us to know Gods word.

The paper and ink of a bible is not holy, the words are, but you cannot take those away no matter what. We should not care if bibles (or ten commandment monuments are in sight or not). We should be thoughtful of other peoples rights, thoughts, beleifes and their own thoughts, cause if we are not, we stubborn prideful people in which we are lucky to be living in a state of Grace.

Non christians are not convicted under the law that God has made for us until they are converted or until they die, so lets not make them do something in which they do not want to voluntarly do.
NOTE: God has given us free will to beleive whatever we want, it may not be right, but it's loving. WHY IN THE HECK CAN'T OUR COUNTRY DO THE SAME??? Oh wait...... WE SHOULD.

"One nation under GOD"

yeah WHAT WOULD JESUS DO??? Jesus would let them go on their ways and tell us that we are fools for being so stubborn and inconsiderate of the thoughts of the people who are still his children, saved or not.

Good night, Rapture.

Christianity all over the news...

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