why??

SqueezetheShaman said:

Why do people say things like this ...."This is part of a larger plan to remove every vestige of faith or reverence for God from the public square. That's where this is headed." (james dobson)

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1)The founder of “Americans” United for Separation of Church and State, Barry Lynn, has admitted privately that this is their agenda.

2) It doesn't take a master's in quantum mechanics to look at today's headlines and examine those of previous decades and do the math. All around the country, special interest groups are fighting more and more overtly against God and Jesus, His blessed son.

3) The Bible clearly speaks of days when people's hearts will be hardened against Him, his Truth, and us (while at the same time, they embrace the occult), just as it foretells the days to follow.

the bible also clearly states that we are to obey the rules of our nation and our authorities... the same nation and athorities God have given us.

What is the problem?? MOVE THE STATUE. It's just a statue anyways, there is nothing holy about it.

If he wants to be reminded of the 10 commandments and wants to remember that this country is founded on God, he can tie a string around his finger.

Brother Christman said:

1)The founder of “Americans” United for Separation of Church and State, Barry Lynn, has admitted privately that this is their agenda.

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Can you post a link to a credible source for that?

Brother Christman said:

2) It doesn't take a master's in quantum mechanics to look at today's headlines and examine those of previous decades and do the math. All around the country, special interest groups are fighting more and more overtly against God and Jesus, His blessed son.

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It also doesn't take a genius to note the shift in religious affiliations within the nation and the decrease in membership of the dominant protestant church. Now tell me, are they fighting against God, or against state endorsement of one religion over all others? If you don't like the separation of church and state laws, why don't you change them?

Brother Christman said:

3) The Bible clearly speaks of days when people's hearts will be hardened against Him, his Truth, and us (while at the same time, they embrace the occult), just as it foretells the days to follow.

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People have used statements like that ever since they were written, and so far we haven't had the end times yet. Perhaps you'd like to provide evidence as to how exactly this time is different than any other?

the bible also clearly states that we are to obey the rules of our nation and our authorities... the same nation and athorities God have given us.

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The bible says that we should obey authority..Until Morals and Ethics go out the window and it goes against principles and God.......Gods laws are ABOVE mans law. If people were to sit quiet and not do anything.....No Government would be changed and evil leaders would rule everywhere.....what do you think we did to the English so long ago. we resisted tyranny. Thats how we have this great nation, because a whole bunch of men stood up and said I and my families WILL NOT be opressed by you any longer! If something is wrong...you change it and stand up for your rights man! Don't be a pushover. Just because a court rules something this DOES NOT MAKE IT LAW!

Force said:

The bible says that we should obey authority..Until Morals and Ethics go out the window and it goes against principles and God.......Gods laws are ABOVE mans law.

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So tell me. Would you support a Muslim who decided to break the law because he believed a law went against the Qu'ran?

strathyboy said:

So tell me. Would you support a Muslim who decided to break the law because he believed a law went against the Qu'ran?

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No I wouldn't but this is not breaking a law.......a court ruling is NOT a constitutional law.

And my point was to xxArchangelxx because he was saying oh its no big deal and to obey all authority. I was saying more people...especially christians need to grow a backbone and stand up for what is right. Go against the in crowd......the view is better.

strathyboy said:

Can you post a link to a credible source for that?

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Naturally, anyone with so heinous agenda, if they're smart, will cover their tracks well. However, though I've no doubt many will immediately spin him as utterly incredible (and I don't agree with him on every issue, myself), Jerry Falwell says the guy told him:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34237

strathyboy said:

It also doesn't take a genius to note the shift in religious affiliations within the nation and the decrease in membership of the dominant protestant church.

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I'm not an authority on demographics, myself – is this a reference to Episcopalianism?

strathyboy said:

Now tell me, are they fighting against God, or against state endorsement of one religion over all others? If you don't like the separation of church and state laws, why don't you change them?

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Many believe they're fighting against state endorsement, but they're all fighting against God and paying reverence to Him as the basis of all moral Law.

strathyboy said:

People have used statements like that ever since they were written, and so far we haven't had the end times yet. Perhaps you'd like to provide evidence as to how exactly this time is different than any other?

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Some would say the fact that you and I are having this conversation is a pretty big hint. We also may be within a generation of America's sovereignty being ceded to the UN (if UNESCO's allowed to brainwash our public school kids into believing patriotism = jingoism, homosexuality is normal, et cetera). From there, the church is under attack both from within (the apocryphal appointment of homosexual clergy) and without (I won't delve into numerous headlines – numerous posts here haven't exactly expressed love/understanding for her, either)... the list goes on and on.

I readily acknowledge that Jesus said we won't truly know until the abomination spoken of in Daniel is in the Temple (and that has yet to be built), but even non “fundamentalists” have begun to hear the door groan. It may not close for a few years yet, but it's no longer silent.

I honestly don't understand why people aren't getting this, how important this stand off is...saying its just a block of stone...well if it was just a block of stone all these on the news wouldn't be going on in the first place...and I would almost bet if it had ANY other reglion stuff on it, it would be ingored too, there certainly would not be this battle going on.

Two very very important things are going on here...first the US was founded ON the Christian belief system....if you look in history the whole reason people left Britan was because they were being forced in to a reglion they didn't agree with...they had NO freedoms on reglions AND many other things...that is why they came to America to start with...to have the freedom to woship as they choose too...among other freedoms which is why we go to war and men and women die to protect those freedoms for us. If you take away even ONE of our freedoms...how long before the rest goes? The freedom of speech? The right to bear arms? and so on...if you don't even care about God or any reglion for that matter, you SHOULD take note on this...our freedoms are slowly being chipped away after 911 as it is...

Back to the reason Christianty is being singled out. First our forefathers wrote the constition under the Christian reglion, NOT under the muslim reglion and so on....

When you go to court and have to testify...you have to swear to tell the truth, the whole turth and nothing but the truth so help you....???? anyone know? and your hand is placed on what while you are swearing to tell the truth??? The Koran??? nooooooo....

On our money, it says what? In --- we trust...

The ten commandments AND other bible verses can be see on many court houses INCLUDINGING above FEDERAL judges heads in FERDRAL courthouses....on the Liberty Bell there is a bible verse inscriped on it...on Lincolen's Memorial and on and on and on. Our whole history on the development of the US has been centered around the Christian God.

Why has America...so very young compared to all these other nations around the world, come to be the most powerful in such a short period on time? Our songs about America many times have God in them...people say God bless Amercia, NOT Allah bless Amercia...

The consitution is being distorted and HAS been for the last 50 plus years...no where does it say anything about seperation of the state and reglion like they are saying it...its SAYS the government/states are to NOT interfer with reglion...and the Federal government is NOT to interfer with what a state choses to do in regards with reglion. If lets say Kansas wanted to become a mostly Mullism state the Federal government cannot interfer with that. Yet they are trying to tell a state judge what to do and this is against the constition.

Second...I agree with Christian man...with the stink the few athesis out there are doing...trying to get Under God taken out of the pledge...prayer is out of school...gee notice school shooting went up after that? The ten commandments cannot be in schools anymore..they USED to study the bible in public schools !!!!! Not anymore..

They are slowly chipping away...wanting God out of everything....

There is scriptures that says a time will come when people will call bad things good, and good things bad...these times are here now.

First the supreme court rules on a moral issues making sodomy ok...but the ten commandments bad??? It IS happening now.

I think some Christians get too upset about these things though...it is prophetized in the bible...it is suppose to happen like this, and while its painfull for us to watch, we need to remember it just means we are that much closer to Jesus' return!!!

Anyway...how many more rights do you think we all need to lose before people start caring?

God bless
whitestar

Force said:

The bible says that we should obey authority..Until Morals and Ethics go out the window and it goes against principles and God.......Gods laws are ABOVE mans law. If people were to sit quiet and not do anything.....No Government would be changed and evil leaders would rule everywhere.....what do you think we did to the English so long ago. we resisted tyranny. Thats how we have this great nation, because a whole bunch of men stood up and said I and my families WILL NOT be opressed by you any longer! If something is wrong...you change it and stand up for your rights man! Don't be a pushover. Just because a court rules something this DOES NOT MAKE IT LAW!

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We left the english, we did not CHANGE the english, get your history right.

I feel the same way, if you don't like how this Country is ran, then move.

That statue can be put in a seperat room or chamber in the building or even down by the side walk out side. JUST NOT WHERE IT IS NOW!!! What is the problem then? Move the freaking monument and try to get some non christians not so tickeded off at us.

"If something is wrong...you change it and stand up for your rights man! Don't be a pushover."

What is WRONG???

The ten commandments were put there by him (Roy Moore). He chose to put it there without aquiring permission.

The people here are free and equal, and equal for religion. IS THIS RIGHT IN THE EYES OF GOD??? I beleive so just for the simple fact we are to love all and to serve them.

I am not a pushover, I am a Patriotic Christian. I fight for you country just as well, so don't ever dare to call me a pushover.

xtxArchxAngelxtx said:

We left the english, we did not CHANGE the english, get your history right.

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Get your history right...The English had come OVER HERE and tried to take us over and we fought them off to say the least. And then later on down the road...a little thing called the Civil War....we CHANGED ourselves and form of Government, established what we have today....

You completely missed the point. Don't sit back and watch everything you "say" you stand for get bowled over because you should be obeying so-called "authority" figures...... Some "authority" figures said slavery was alright.......Give me a freaking break with your reasoning.

I respect a person who is wrong but stands up for themselves a lot more than I do with people who ride the fence.

And by the way it's not JUST the 10 commandments written on there...it's a bunch of quotes.

**ORIGINALLY** we left england for freedom of religion, then they thought we would still be united with them. We had other plans, then we fought them off.

It can be moved somewhere else, it does not have to stay where it is.

Roy Moore even said this is no different than waht Martin Luther King Jr. tried to do.

Sorry, thats just wrong. This is about a statue, not religion. This statue does not represent Christianity.

He himself said that "his conscience will not let him move this statue" There you go. His own conscience is his decision maker. He did not "God" or "the bible", He said his own conscience.

God does want us to worship him, but he wants us to love and respect others. Others have asked us to move something in which it wasn't even supossed to be there in the first place. We are throwing a fit about it, even though we are suppossed to have equal rights, even religion.

Even if the 10 commandments stay, what will it prove???

Realistically it will show that Christians are crybabies and will do whatever it takes to get whatever we want. It will also create more anger between us and the non christians (the people in whom we are suposse to try and convert through love). Yeah, this is their country too, and if we to dominate over that, they will see no love. What they will see is us trying to make this country a religous cummunism.

If you were in a country in which christianity was not the most populated, but yet you were able to practice it freely, u would be happy, I hope. However, once the more popular religion is oppressed, they fight for what they beleive in, you would be upset cause you want people to view things your way.

Look at everything from the flip side.

Force said:

I respect a person who is wrong but stands up for themselves a lot more than I do with people who ride the fence.

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What about all of those who are trying to have the statue removed? You certainly don't sound very respectful of them.

strathyboy said:

What about all of those who are trying to have the statue removed? You certainly don't sound very respectful of them.

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I said I respected them not agreed with them. And second when did I say something disrespectful.

Force said:

Get your history right...The English had come OVER HERE and tried to take us over and we fought them off to say the least.

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No. The English colonized North America with the thirteen original colonies. After the American settlers decided the English were abusing them, they declared their independence. English soldiers were already spread across the colonies when the revolution started.

Force said:

And then later on down the road...a little thing called the Civil War....we CHANGED ourselves and form of Government, established what we have today....

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Actually, that came before, in the Revolutionary War. Who needs to get their history right again?

And force, I do NOT ride the fence.

I will appreciate it if you would stop directly antagonizing me.

ifriit said:

No. The English colonized North America with the thirteen original colonies. After the American settlers decided the English were abusing them, they declared their independence. English soldiers were already spread across the colonies when the revolution started.

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I was breaking it down in layman's terms........What I was saying was people need to stand up for themselves IE:

England France, Spain (main three settling parties) came over here...then the branch off of that became colonial. (after the fact) Thus the French & Indian Wars which the colonials and English destroying the French....then seeing we didn't need Englands protection the colonists felt less need for the English spawning the American Revolution. Which gave us the 13 colonies which was a weak union established with the Articles of Confederation. Then later on glorious Independence day.

Actually, that came before, in the Revolutionary War. Who needs to get their history right again?

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And we were not completely changed and formed until after the Civil War and Reconstruction. (we fought ourselves...not a foreign war is what I was saying.)

Hope that made it better for you.

The point being....Stand up dont ride the fence! (thats directly pointing to ANY christian who will not stand up for their beliefs.)

Force said:

The point being....Stand up dont ride the fence! (thats directly pointing to ANY christian who will not stand up for their beliefs.)

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And any Christian who stands up for their beliefs MUST agree with you? If not, who are you talking to, since nobody here is fence-sitting?

whitestar said:

Two very very important things are going on here...first the US was founded ON the Christian belief system....if you look in history the whole reason people left Britan was because they were being forced in to a reglion they didn't agree with...they had NO freedoms on reglions AND many other things...that is why they came to America to start with...to have the freedom to woship as they choose too...among other freedoms which is why we go to war and men and women die to protect those freedoms for us.

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Actually, you are thinking of the Puritains, a very small minority of the people who eventually settled the American colonies under English rule. They were not particularly influential to the foundation of the country, they just happened to have the first surviving English colony on American land.

Also, as an aside, the Puritains were a bunch of idiots. They came over to the Americas with Bibles and guns, and that's about it. It was only through the generousity of the natives that they survived; they didn't think to bring anywhere near enough agricultural implements to support themselves!

whitestar said:

Back to the reason Christianty is being singled out. First our forefathers wrote the constition under the Christian reglion, NOT under the muslim reglion and so on....

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They wrote the Consitution under no religion. To quote the Treaty of Tripoli, 1797: "...
the Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."

( For all of you who think this might have been taken out of context, here is the entirety of Article 11 from the above document: "As the Government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and as the states never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever produce an interruption of harmony existing between the two countries." )

whitestar said:

When you go to court and have to testify...you have to swear to tell the truth, the whole turth and nothing but the truth so help you....???? anyone know? and your hand is placed on what while you are swearing to tell the truth??? The Koran??? nooooooo....

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You are not required to do either of those things, though it's relatively common.

whitestar said:

On our money, it says what? In --- we trust...

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Put there in 1956 by morons who confused Christianity with American patriotism.

whitestar said:

The ten commandments AND other bible verses can be see on many court houses INCLUDINGING above FEDERAL judges heads in FERDRAL courthouses....on the Liberty Bell there is a bible verse inscriped on it...on Lincolen's Memorial and on and on and on. Our whole history on the development of the US has been centered around the Christian God.

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Amazing bit of non sequitur there.

whitestar said:

Why has America...so very young compared to all these other nations around the world, come to be the most powerful in such a short period on time?

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Apparently it has nothing to do with any political, social, or technological advancements the people of the US have made, it must be the magical sky-father!

whitestar said:

Our songs about America many times have God in them...people say God bless Amercia, NOT Allah bless Amercia...

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Some of them do, some of them don't, and we don't say "Allah" because we speak English here, silly! Arabic Christians say "Allah," not God.

whitestar said:

The consitution is being distorted and HAS been for the last 50 plus years...no where does it say anything about seperation of the state and reglion like they are saying it...its SAYS the government/states are to NOT interfer with reglion...and the Federal government is NOT to interfer with what a state choses to do in regards with reglion. If lets say Kansas wanted to become a mostly Mullism state the Federal government cannot interfer with that. Yet they are trying to tell a state judge what to do and this is against the constition.

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You don't even understand what the Constitution says and how it relates to the state governments. The Bill of Rights is enforced on both federal and state levels. The states cannot legally violate the Bill of Rights any more than the federal government can. It also says nothing about "interference" with religion, rather it says it shall make no laws "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Further documents such as Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists have underscored the intent behind this amendment and establish in part how it is interpreted today.

whitestar said:

Second...I agree with Christian man...with the stink the few athesis out there are doing...trying to get Under God taken out of the pledge...prayer is out of school...gee notice school shooting went up after that?

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No it didn't. School shootings, despite the media, have actually dropped since the 1950s.

Good grief, these kinds of diatribes reflect extraordinarily poorly on Christians. You really should try to be at least a little informed on topics you take the time to expound on at such length lest you tarnish the reputation of others.