Judge Everybody
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TheBear
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Two types of judgements have already been discussed in this thread, and are backed by scripture. Condemnation judgement - which is reserved for God alone, and righteuos judgement - judging what is moral and immoral, of which Christians are exorted to do. I just gave you a clear example of the latter. There are other posts in this thread which provide more scripture that exorts us to righteous judgement.
I know this thread is long, but go through it from the begining. You will see the other references.
I know this thread is long, but go through it from the begining. You will see the other references.
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sweetkitty said:
Did Jesus not have supper with tax collectors and publicans (I believe the definition of a publican is the owner of a tavern or pub)? Was a prostitute named Mary not one of his friends? A close enough friend that she washed his feet and anointed them with perfumed oil.
Jesus did in fact, so far as I can tell from reading the New Testament, hang out with sinners. Good heavens, it was the fact that he DID associate with sinners that was partly responsible for getting him killed! He was a troublemaker who associated with those people who would have been kept on the fringes of society--tax collectors, bartenders, prostitutes.
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SnowOwlMoon said:
Did you read what was posted? There is a difference in ministering to and hanging out with people.
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Stormy said:
Christianity should not be compromised... but it should be lived.[/QUOTE]
Christianity should not be compromised... but it should be lived.[/QUOTE]
I thought this should be repeated. You've expressed what I believe, and couldn't find the words for. Thank you.
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TheBear said:Two types of judgements have already been discussed in this thread, and are backed by scripture. Condemnation judgement - which is reserved for God alone, and righteuos judgement - judging what is moral and immoral, of which Christians are exorted to do. I just gave you a clear example of the latter. There are other posts in this thread which provide more scripture that exorts us to righteous judgement.
I know this thread is long, but go through it from the begining. You will see the other references.
You proved it to me. Many times I wanted to comment, but you covered it so well, good job.
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sweetkitty said:
He had supper at their houses. He allowed them to come to the places where he stayed. He called them "friend." Where I'm from, we call that behavior "hanging out with." And yes, he ministered to them, while he was hanging out with them. One can do both, you know. In fact, it would be darned hard to minister to someone if you avoided them. It is far easier to minister to someone's needs if you hang out with them, and get to know them.
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Plan 9
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sweetkitty said:
Spending time (hanging out) with other people doesn't necessarily involve participating in all their activities. I couldn't if I wanted to. I'm in no physical condition to bowl, for instance, but I can go and sit with my friends while they bowl. If a friend invites me to lunch at a bar and grill, I don't have to drink alcohol if I don't want to.
"Buddy-buddy" sounds pejorative in the context of your post, but Jesus wasn't too proud to be a friend to sinners, to go to them and spend time talking to them.
Jesus certainly left his enemies the leeway to defame him and when they did, he didn't deny it; he only said that they never satisfied with anyones' behavior, since they had equally criticized John the Baptist's.
He wasn't sensitive about his reputation.
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Yitzchak
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Plan 9 said:
Jesus also went into the wilderness to fast and pray for 40 days. he also frequently spent nights alone praying. He eventually went to the cross to die.
My point, Jesus was devoted to doing His father's will and seeking out a lost humanity. Going into a bar doesn't make me just like Jesus anymore than going into Mcdonalds makes me a hamburger.
When we have that kind of single minded determination to do the will of God combined with an overwhelming joy and love of life and our fellow man then we will be a lot closer to following in the steps of Jesus.
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Plan 9
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Yitzchak said:
Yitzchak, sometimes your posts are so good, they take my breath away!
I completely agree.
Btw, your bon mot reminds me of Laurence J. Peter's statement pointing out that if going to church made you a Christian, then walking into your garage would make you a car.
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Inspired
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TheBear said:Two types of judgements have already been discussed in this thread, and are backed by scripture. Condemnation judgement - which is reserved for God alone, and righteuos judgement - judging what is moral and immoral, of which Christians are exorted to do. I just gave you a clear example of the latter. There are other posts in this thread which provide more scripture that exorts us to righteous judgement.
I know this thread is long, but go through it from the begining. You will see the other references.
But it says to judge their actions right? Meaning you have the opportunity to judge their actions, show them the scripture and try to show them your views. Correct?
Not meaning you should stand by and judge the person at every opportunity and tell them they are going to hell, and never once try to explain your position.
And at the same time the bible says that those who don't know Jesus won't be held accountable for their sins, so if he isn't holding them accountable should we?
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Yitzchak
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Since a verse from my favorite passage in the whole bible was brought up, I feel a strong desire to comment. "judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgemant" john 7:24 is the verse I am refering to.
The passage reads as follows-
"Jesus said to them, ' I did one miracle, and you are all astonished. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision ( though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath. Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgement." John 7:21-24
This is my favorite passage in the whole bible and it is what I like to call "common sense theology". It makes me think of Jesus teaching which says- love God with all that you are and love you neighbor as yourself. By following these two you will fulfill all the law and the prophets.
This is such a classic situation depicted here. The pharisees were the strictest keepers of the law. But here they are faced with a choice, which law to follow?? The sabbath or circumcision which must be done seven days following birth. To put it off a day would violate the law of circumcision. So their solution. An exception.
The setting for this passage was the pharisees criticising Jesus for violating the sabbath. He healed and his disciples picked corn on the sabbath. Both violations. Jesus responds by pointing out what I like to call "common sense".
The exhortation to make a right judgement actually applies to them making an exception to their legalistic religious codes in favor of love. The right judgement refered to here is that people are much more important than religious rules.
Just thought I would add my comments about the context of this verse which is often used to justify just the opposite.
The passage reads as follows-
"Jesus said to them, ' I did one miracle, and you are all astonished. Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision ( though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), you circumcise a child on the Sabbath. Now if a child can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing the whole man on the Sabbath? Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgement." John 7:21-24
This is my favorite passage in the whole bible and it is what I like to call "common sense theology". It makes me think of Jesus teaching which says- love God with all that you are and love you neighbor as yourself. By following these two you will fulfill all the law and the prophets.
This is such a classic situation depicted here. The pharisees were the strictest keepers of the law. But here they are faced with a choice, which law to follow?? The sabbath or circumcision which must be done seven days following birth. To put it off a day would violate the law of circumcision. So their solution. An exception.
The setting for this passage was the pharisees criticising Jesus for violating the sabbath. He healed and his disciples picked corn on the sabbath. Both violations. Jesus responds by pointing out what I like to call "common sense".
The exhortation to make a right judgement actually applies to them making an exception to their legalistic religious codes in favor of love. The right judgement refered to here is that people are much more important than religious rules.
Just thought I would add my comments about the context of this verse which is often used to justify just the opposite.
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TheBear
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Inspired said:
I give up.....
I've shown scripture. I've explained the two types of judgements - one we are forbidden from and the other we are exorted to. I have made the clear distinction between the sinners needing salvation, and ones who call themselves Christians, but live in sin. In all my posts, have I ever once said that we are to tell anyone they are going to hell? No. Not once have I said anything like that. Quite the opposite, I said that this type of judgement is reserved for God alone.
You either cannot, or will not, see the truth in this. Winning debates should be secondary to the message of salvation and the Word of God.
Good night and God bless you.
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Inspired
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TheBear said:I give up.....
I've shown scripture. I've explained the two types of judgements - one we are forbidden from and the other we are exorted to. I have made the clear distinction between the sinners needing salvation, and ones who call themselves Christians, but live in sin. In all my posts, have I ever once said that we are to tell anyone they are going to hell? No. Not once have I said anything like that. Quite the opposite, I said that this type of judgement is reserved for God alone.
You either cannot, or will not, see the truth in this. Winning debates should be secondary to the message of salvation and the Word of God.
Good night and God bless you.
Ok miscommunication, I was asking a question of you and giving examples, but did not mean to imply you personally had done those things. -sorry if that was the way it came off.
Two I wasn't trying to argue with you on the point, I was stating my opinion and asking for your input on it.
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Plan 9
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Yitzchak said:
Thank you, Yitzchack. Would you mind if I copy and paste some of your posts and send them to my cousin? He doesn't have the free time to come here to read them, but I think he would enjoy them.
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Yitzchak
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Plan 9 said:Thank you, Yitzchack. Would you mind if I copy and paste some of your posts and send them to my cousin? He doesn't have the free time to come here to read them, but I think he would enjoy them.
I don't mind.
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Rae
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There's a little thing called tact, and another called manners. There's also "not leaping to conclusions from insufficient evidence."
My problem is with those who judge without tact or manners, and who leap to conclusions about me based on insufficient evidence. Atheists and Christians alike have been guilty of judging me in this fashion.
My problem is with those who judge without tact or manners, and who leap to conclusions about me based on insufficient evidence. Atheists and Christians alike have been guilty of judging me in this fashion.
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