Hate Crimes

Inspired said:

Yes all crimes involve hate of some kind, but in states were there is no hate crime legislation, criminals like the one, who took a 15 year old girls life after she said she was a lesbian, can walk away after only serving 3 years, under the crime of passion law.
Deliberately killing someone because they are GLBT, a certain ethnicity, or religion, should be protected under hate crime legislation, otherwise, it can be reduced to a crime of passion, and they can walk away from what they did, in as little as 3-7 years.

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To my knowledge, there is no "crime of passion" law in the United States and a jury is highly unlikely to be swayed by the concept when the killer has never met his victim. Could you go into more detail, please?
Murderers who are unacquainted with their victims tend to get stiff penalties and I predict that the prosecutor will ask for the death penalty if this occured in a death penalty state and for life in prison without parole if it isn't. In some states there is a penalty phase of the trial after the defendant has been found guilty and the jury sets the penalty, but within very strict guidelines. In other states, the judge decides the penalty.
Serial killers, who don't know their victims, are hate criminals, too, and I'm happy to say that they routinely get the book thrown at them.
Perhaps someone better at searching the internet than I could keep track of this case and help us stay updated?

I'm wondering if, in the U.S., at least, hate crime legislation wouldn't be far more effective as federal law. It gives us a second opportunity to prosecute a possible offender.[/b]

Plan 9 said:

To my knowledge, there is no "crime of passion" law in the United States and a jury is highly unlikely to be swayed by the concept when the killer has never met his victim. Could you go into more detail, please? [/b]

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http://www.cityofboston.gov/police/sau_date.asp

"Acquaintance rape, however, is not simply a crime of passion, or merely a result of miscommunication"

http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/Newsstand/articles/2000/2-18-00-police.html
Det. Charles Garrison of the Livermore Police Department has called the evidence "consistent with a crime of passion," meaning Hall's killer could have been a friend, acquaintance, family member or a co-worker.


I'd have to look it up to find out what year it started, I'll be happy to do that tomorrow when I get in from class.

Homosexuality is wrong, but I'm all for protecting persons from physical harm based on any of these reasons, homosexuality included.

Take care not to delve into hate speech, however. I'm no fan of the n-word or any other childish, hateful terms that might be used, but all it's going to take is a little stretching of the term to verge on Canadian-style oppression of religious freedom of speech. When the mother state has to approve clergy's every word (i.e. lest they mention 1 Corinthians 6:8-10), someone's been given special (not merely equal) rights above ours.

I know someone whose boyfriend is involved with the White Power movement. My boss constantly asks me and others what races people are. He also says ignorant racist things about them (e.g. You don't look like a Mexican...). My grandmother thought it was terrible for someone she knew to marry an Indian, because he was practically black, you know.

Unfortunately, I do know a good number of racists in my own life, chér Bear. I even have a very good friend who was called a racist slur by a member of our student government at the university here for, among other things, wanting to represent students other than rich white frat boys.

Like Keith Knight constantly says, racism still exists....sigh...

Originally Posted By: Brother Christman
Homosexuality is wrong, but I'm all for protecting persons from physical harm based on any of these reasons, homosexuality included.

Take care not to delve into hate speech, however.

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If it is your sincere wish then to avoid hate speech then your first sentence should read:” It is my opinion that homosexuality is wrong.”

I do not know where some of you get the idea that Christians teach and support hate crimes. This is the most insane thing I have ever heard. This is a really big lie. We do however help people leave their bad choices that they have made in there lives. We do not have to lie and compromise what we believe. Like the _fact_ that 100% of homosexuality is changeable and that no one has ever been nor will ever be born this way. Look at the web site that gives the facts www.hopeforhomosexuals.com. Those of you who are involved in this lifestyle are in serious denial and Satan has alot of control over your minds. I say this with love but yall are really a long way from reality. 100% of yall chose this. That is the facts so wake up and smell the roses.

JEREMY O'ROURKE said:

We do not have to lie and compromise what we believe. Like the _fact_ that 100% of homosexuality is changeable and that no one has ever been nor will ever be born this way.

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You do have to lie to maintain your belief because that claim is not a fact as you say, and repeating that lie won't change it magically into truth. Every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country agrees on the fact that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable, and that reparative therapy is ineffective and unethical. Furthermore, no independent study of such an organization has shown any high "success" rates--quite the opposite, as more often than not, the number is 0%. To say that "100% of homosexuality is changeable" is a baldfaced lie. I'd trust homosexuals themselves and scientists long before I'd trust religious propagandists desperate to justify their hatred.

You miss the whole point. They do not need therapy but deliverance from demons and repentance for choosing to be that way period. All these Doctors who believe and say that it is not changeable are buffoons who would not know the truth if it hit them in the head. These doctors are not above the true and living God (Jesus). They are empty headed God hating morons. Much of homosexuality is caused by Demon Possession. You sure are not walking in reality.

I am in reality. To say that homosexuality is a result of demonic possesssion and that phychiatrists, psychologists, biopsychologists, pediatricians, and medical doctors are "empty headed God hating morons" certainly illustrates the fact that you are not.

Mechanical Bliss said:

You do have to lie to maintain your belief because that claim is not a fact as you say, and repeating that lie won't change it magically into truth. Every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country agrees on the fact that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable, and that reparative therapy is ineffective and unethical. Furthermore, no independent study of such an organization has shown any high "success" rates--quite the opposite, as more often than not, the number is 0%. To say that "100% of homosexuality is changeable" is a baldfaced lie. I'd trust homosexuals themselves and scientists long before I'd trust religious propagandists desperate to justify their hatred.

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It was just the opposite a generation ago with therapists firmly convinced that homosexuality was something to be cured. I would disagree that it is such a monolithic stance by the scientific and medical community. The pendulum has swung and momentum is on that side of the issue. But it is still a debateable issue.
To a thinking person such as myself, Common sense dictates that very few things are 100% genetic and unchangeable. Genetics may determine parameters and a susceptablity towards something but rarely does genetics provide unchangeable lifestyles in individuals.
Lifestyles are the combination of genetics, environment, and choices which an individual makes. To swing to such an extreme view that a person is genetically predisposed to an unchangeable outcome is a reactionary position at best.
Far better to argue a case for being allowed to make your own choices than to assert you have no choice.
[updown] my opinion [/updown]

Yitzchak said:

It was just the opposite a generation ago with therapists firmly convinced that homosexuality was something to be cured.

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That was due to prejudice and incomplete, biased research. Those claims were "firmly" disproven.

I would disagree that it is such a monolithic stance by the scientific and medical community.

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If you had read what I said carefully, you would have noticed that I said that every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country. That does not necessarily mean that every single individual member of the scientific community agrees.

To a thinking person such as myself, Common sense dictates that very few things are 100% genetic and unchangeable. Genetics may determine parameters and a susceptablity towards something but rarely does genetics provide unchangeable lifestyles in individuals.

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It's not a lifestyle, first of all. And second, to a thinking person such as myself, common sense dictates that a biologically produced, involuntary response to a stimulus should be instintual. Homosexuality is just as instinctual as heterosexuality. There is evidence that there is at least a mostly biological origin for sexual orientation. Whether or not it is 100% is irrelevant.

Lifestyles are the combination of genetics, environment, and choices which an individual makes. To swing to such an extreme view that a person is genetically predisposed to an unchangeable outcome is a reactionary position at best.

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It's not reactionary, it's reasonable. Since homosexuality is not actually a lifestyle but rather a sexual orientation involving biological processes, it is perfectly reasonable. You might have a point if it were actually simply a lifestyle.

Far better to argue a case for being allowed to make your own choices than to assert you have no choice.

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Not really, but in the end it is irrelevant because whether or not it is chosen, there is no reasonable basis for discrimination.