Are catholics different from "Christians"?

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nyj

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Malaka said:
bear in mind, Phillip,
Bear in mind Malaka, I am NYJ, not Philip.

Also, for the record, I believe my response to DaTsar is crystal clear in conveying my opinion. If not, I suggest you re-read it a bit more closely a second time.
 
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Palatka44

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Philip said:
I think I saw the combination posted by WitL on TBTSNBN. Mentioning the Paulicans is always fun. It gives us the We don't have any records because the Catholics killed all the True Christians and burned their books. Oh, someone found some records like the Key of Truth. Um, I guess those must have been forged.
Could have been forged.
Who today has seen any of these events.
Who are we to trust? Catholics? The ones that seduce young boys. Get drunk during the eucharist? The laity, that on Saturday or Sunday take Mass only to use God's Holy Name in vain, commit adultery, pray to a statute while rubbing beans on a string and confess to a preist that is full of sin. In light of the testamonies of recent Catholic press I'd say the truth of how this "Christian Church" likes to keep Its inner sins to itself only fuels the fire of distrust. If you can not keep your preist true how do you expect anyone to trust you to the keeping of history?
Oh how like the Pharisee you are. Those that in the past that dared stand against your idolitry had their heads cut off, burned at the stake, or tortured to death. Is this the acts of Christianity? I say not! The believer in Christ would not take one life that is prescious in the eyes of God. Remember what the Words of my Lord and Savior said to the Pharisee and examine you own heart before God.

Matthew 23:27-33
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


With all that I've said, let it be known that I do believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church system is evil and if you are a Christian you are warned to come out of her. Through out history those that have seen the wickedness in her have done just that. It is time for a modern day seperation of the saints from the Catholic system of devils. Come out of her so cries the Word of God.

Revelation 18:4-8
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Let your own heart condemn you if you stay. :cry:
 
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Serapha

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nyj said:
Bear in mind Malaka, I am NYJ, not Philip.

Also, for the record, I believe my response to DaTsar is crystal clear in conveying my opinion. If not, I suggest you re-read it a bit more closely a second time.



NYJ.... thank you, I edited the posting... but the content remains...


You have yet to address the question...

"I know that Catholism (sp) is a branch of Christianity, but I don't really get it...they believe in purgatory and stuff..so are they still Christian?"



too busy addressing member's responses to address the original issue?


~malaka~
 
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Philip

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Palatka44 said:
Could have been forged.
Who today has seen any of these events.

Are you familiar with The Key of Truth? It is well documentented. It is considered authentic by all historians.

Who are we to trust? Catholics?

The Catholic Church has nothing to do with The Key of Truth. It was found in Armenia. If you read what I posted about the the Paulicans, you will see that I included a quotation from a Baptist scholar who accepts The Key of Truth as authentic and agrees that the Paulicans were not Christian.

The ones that seduce young boys. Get drunk during the eucharist? The laity, that on Saturday or Sunday take Mass only to use God's Holy Name in vain, commit adultery,

Are you suggesting that Catholics are the only people who sin? Are you without sin? If you are not without sin, then how are you anymore trustworthy then Catholics?

pray to a statute while rubbing beans on a string

It is clear that you do not understand Catholicism.

and confess to a preist that is full of sin.

Again, are you not full of sin?


Those that in the past that dared stand against your idolitry had their heads cut off, burned at the stake, or tortured to death. Is this the acts of Christianity? I say not! The believer in Christ would not take one life that is prescious in the eyes of God.

Then by your own argument, Baptists are not Christians since they are guilty of exaclty these same offences. As are Anglicans. And Lutherans. And Presbyterians. And every other group made up of humans.

With all that I've said, let it be known that I do believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church system is evil and if you are a Christian you are warned to come out of her.

You do not see the inconsistency here, do you?

Revelation 18:4-8

This passage has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
 
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Palatka44

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nyj said:
:(

May God have mercy on your soul Palatka.
Why thank you Sir, :clap: but it is By the Blood of Christ that I have mercy with Him :bow: not by your blessing, which could be taken as a threat BTW.
May you live long and have good insight into the Word of God. :hug:
 
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Serapha

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Palatka44 said:
Could have been forged.
Who today has seen any of these events.
Who are we to trust? Catholics? The ones that seduce young boys. Get drunk during the eucharist? The laity, that on Saturday or Sunday take Mass only to use God's Holy Name in vain, commit adultery, pray to a statute while rubbing beans on a string and confess to a preist that is full of sin. In light of the testamonies of recent Catholic press I'd say the truth of how this "Christian Church" likes to keep Its inner sins to itself only fuels the fire of distrust. If you can not keep your preist true how do you expect anyone to trust you to the keeping of history?
Oh how like the Pharisee you are. Those that in the past that dared stand against your idolitry had their heads cut off, burned at the stake, or tortured to death. Is this the acts of Christianity? I say not! The believer in Christ would not take one life that is prescious in the eyes of God. Remember what the Words of my Lord and Savior said to the Pharisee and examine you own heart before God.

...

With all that I've said, let it be known that I do believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church system is evil and if you are a Christian you are warned to come out of her. Through out history those that have seen the wickedness in her have done just that. It is time for a modern day seperation of the saints from the Catholic system of devils. Come out of her so cries the Word of God.

"Catholics? The ones that seduce young boys. Get drunk during the eucharist? The laity, that on Saturday or Sunday take Mass only to use God's Holy Name in vain, commit adultery, pray to a statute while rubbing beans on a string and confess to a preist that is full of sin."


In all fairness... these statements should not be brought into a discussion of christians within the Roman Church.

The Roman Church is not the only denomination that has experienced problem with pedophilia and sexual abuse including a cover-up, nor are they the only Christians that indulge in alcoholic consumption. Perhaps you mean "idoltry" and not "adultery"?

I don't know of any Catholic that prays "TO" a statue, although I just as certainly don't agree with placing petitions to dead saints at all for intercession for we already have an advocate in Jesus Christ.

Let's keep the main thing as the main thing, and not make statements that are not productive to discussion.

People should be "called out"... not dragged out.

Your sister in Christ,

~malaka~
 
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Palatka44

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Hey Phillip did you notice that you last post was your 666th? :scratch:

phillip said:
Again, are you not full of sin?
The Blood of Christ has washed me of my sin. I am quite humbled by that. And as He told the Woman that was about to be stoned "Go and sin no more" so must I do like wise.
 
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KennySe

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keeki said:
I know that Catholism (sp) is a branch of Christianity, but I don't really get it...they believe in purgatory and stuff..so are they still Christian?

Hi, keeki.

Yes, Catholics ARE Christians.
Protestants are Christians; their churches are "daughters" of the Catholic Church. (Ask the Orthodox Church if the Protestant churches are HER daughters, and they will rightly say no.)

I can understand if this thread causes you some confusion as some may state that Catholics might be Christians, but the Catholic Church is not.

History shows the Popes from Apostle Peter to John Paul II. Historical records show the continuation of the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. Ask either to say if the other is Christian and the answer is yes.
 
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Palatka44

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Malaka said:
"Catholics? The ones that seduce young boys. Get drunk during the eucharist? The laity, that on Saturday or Sunday take Mass only to use God's Holy Name in vain, commit adultery, pray to a statute while rubbing beans on a string and confess to a preist that is full of sin."


In all fairness... these statements should not be brought into a discussion of christians within the Roman Church.

The Roman Church is not the only denomination that has experienced problem with pedophilia and sexual abuse including a cover-up, nor are they the only Christians that indulge in alcoholic consumption. Perhaps you mean "idoltry" and not "adultery"?

I don't know of any Catholic that prays "TO" a statue, although I just as certainly don't agree with placing petitions to dead saints at all for intercession for we already have an advocate in Jesus Christ.

Let's keep the main thing as the main thing, and not make statements that are not productive to discussion.

People should be "called out"... not dragged out.

Your sister in Christ,

~malaka~
You know, I really do not know why my first post went the direction it did but I've had some very nasty experiences with Catholics, preist and laity alike.
 
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Philip

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for some say[/b] that it dates back to the time of Sylvester (A. D. 825); others to the time of the apostles. [emphasis mine]

You should read your own post a little more closely. Some (but not all) of the Waldenses say that it dates to the time of the Apostles. The author himself does not believe this to be true.

and a contradiction to your posting...

A Catechism emanating from the Waldenses of the thirteenth century makes no allusion to infant baptism. It says that the church catholic, that is, the elect of God through the merits of Christ, is gathered together by the Holy Spirit, and foreordained to eternal life (Gilly, Waldensian Researches, I. lxxii. London, 1825), which is not consistent with infant baptism.

How is that inconsitent with infant baptism? It sounds like good old Calvinism to me. Calvinist baptize infants. Odd, isn't it?


The preceding statement contradicts what you post here. The Waldenses did NOT support infant baptism and I have found nothing that indicates the belief in transubstantiation or prayers for the dead.

Have you done your own research on the Waldenses? If you have, I am sure you have come across this letter in 1218 from the Poor of Lombardy to the Poor of Lyons, two groups the Waldenses:

"To the question they [the Poor of Lyons] raised concerning baptism, we replied as follows : We affirm that no one can be saved who refuses the material water of baptism and that unbaptized infants are not saved. This we called on them to believe and profess....

"One point of difference between us and the companions of Valdes...concerned the breaking or SACRIFICE of the bread. As we have verified, their judgment differs from ours...

"In the first place, some of the companions of Valdes maintain that the substance of the bread and wine is transformed into the body and blood of Christ by the Word of God, adding that the power comes not from men but from God.

"To this we objected, saying that, if the bread and wine are transubstantiated...by the mere mention of the Word of God, it follows that any person, Jew or pagan, could pronounce the Word of God on the bread and wine, and, according to this opinion, it would be transformed into the body and blood of Christ.

"This is absolutely impious and cannot be sustained by any valid authority and is unreasonable....They have acknowledged that the sacrament cannot be performed by women or laymen, but only by the PRIEST. They also said that no one, good or bad, but only He who is God and man, that is, CHRIST, can transubstantiate the bread and wine into the body and blood."​

Have you read that letter? If not, you can find it in Giorgio Tourn, The Waldensians : The First 800 Years tr. C.P. Merlino (Torino, Italy: Claudiana Editrice, 1980), p 6. Of course.

It is possible that some of the Italian Waldenses (so-called) practiced infant baptism (Döllinger, Sektengerchichte, II 52); There is no account that the French Waldenses, or the Waldenses proper, ever practiced infant baptism. As early as the year 1184 there was a union of the Poor men of Lyons, as some of the followers of Waldo were called, and the Arnoldists, who rejected infant baptism. (A History of the Baptists, Christian)

Ah, now I see your confusion. You agree with those Waldenses who agree with you. Those who you do not agree with are dismissed as not being true Waldenses. Isn't that convienent.

It was the received opinion among the Waldenses that they were of ancient origin and truly apostolic. "They call themselves," says David of Augsburg, "successors of the apostles, and say that they are in possession of the apostolic authority, and of the keys to bind and unbind"

Since they claim it, it must be true? Why can't they present any evidence to support it?

The great church historian, Neander, in commenting on this document, suggests that it may have been "of an elder origin than 1120. He further says:

But it is not without some foundation of truth that the Waldenses of this period asserted the high antiquity of their sect, and maintained that from the time of the secularization of the church—that is, as they believed,

Have you read Neader's works, or are you just posting some things you found on the internet? Neader is merely repeating some Waldenses' claims. Notice how he qualifies his comments with "that is, as they believed".

Such was the tradition and such was the opinion of the Waldenses in regard to their origin. They held to a "secret perpetuity during the Middle Ages, vying with the Catholic perpetuity" (Michelet, Histoire de France, II. 402. Paris, 1833).

"such was the opinion"? Just an opinion? No evidence?

Theodore Beza, the Reformer of the sixteenth century, voices the sentiment of his times, when he says:

As for the Waldenses, I may be permitted to call them the very seed of the primitive and purer Christian church, since, they are those that have been upheld, as is abundantly manifest, by the wonderful providence of God, so that neither those endless storms and tempests by which the whole Christian world has been shaken for so many succeeding ages, and the Western part so miserably oppressed by the Bishop of Rome, falsely so called; nor those horrible persecutions which have been expressly raised against them, were able so far to prevail as to make them bend, or yield a voluntary subjection to the Roman tyranny and idolatry

Have you read Beza's writings? Did you notice that he offers no evidence to support these claims? He just claims that the Waldenses are the "primitive and purer Christian church", but offers no historical or archaeological evidence to support his claim?

Jonathan Edwards, the great President of Princeton University, in his "History of Redemption," says of the Waldenses:
...
Then speaking especially of the Waldenses, he says:

... It is supposed, that this people first betook themselves to this desert, secret place among the mountains to hide themselves from the severity of the heathen persecutions, which were before Constantine the Great.[emphasis mine]

"It is supposed"? It seems the Edwards is admitting that the antiquity of the Waldenses is a supposition and not established by factual evidence.


The special historians of the Waldenses claim the most remote origin for them. For example, Mr. Faber says:

The evidence which I have now adduced distinctly proves, not only that the Waldenses and Albigenses existed anterior to Peter. of Lyon

Why not post Faber's evidence so that we can all evaluate it for ourselves? Do you have a copy of it? Anyone can claim that their evidence proves something. It is another matter to actual submit that evidence to examination.
 
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Philip

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Palatka44 said:
Hey Phillip did you notice that you last post was your 666th? :scratch:

:rolleyes:


The Blood of Christ has washed me of my sin. I am quite humbled by that. And as He told the Woman that was about to be stoned "Go and sin no more" so must I do like wise.

So, you no longer sin?
 
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Serapha

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nyj said:
:(

May God have mercy on your soul Palatka.



Handbook for Today's Catholic

Imprimi imprint....

Page 99

Practical Guidelines toward Interfaith Understanding
(821, 855, 856)

The Decree on Ecumenism further bridged the gap between religions and set forth useful guidelines for fruitful dialogue.

....Catholics today have many opportunities for interfaith understanding and dialogue. The climate of openness allows greater freedom than formerly for Catholics to discuss their religious beliefs with others and learn how others approach God (1636).

....

The call to religious openness is basic if we are to live peaceably and in harmony with all peoples. Father Avery Dulles, S. J., summed up the ecumenical spirit in an address on Church unity: "To be truly Catholic, in the literal sense of the word, is to be universal and open to all truth and goodness from whatever source it may come." (849-856)


~malaka~
 
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KennySe

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Palatka44 said:
You know, I really do not know why my first post went the direction it did but I've had some very nasty experiences with Catholics, preist and laity alike.

I've had some nasty experiences with Americans, Republicans and Democrats alike.

Yet I remain a U.S. citizen.
 
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Palatka44

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Philip said:
:rolleyes:




So, you no longer sin?
To say that I donot sin is to say that I'm not human and it is to make God a liar.

Galatians 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

These are the things that we wrestle with.
However he that loves Our Savior will abide in the fruit of the Spirit.
 
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Philip

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Palatka44 said:
To say that I donot sin is to say that I'm not human and it is to make God a liar.

So you do sin? Then how can claim that a Catholic priest is untrustworthy just because he sins as well?
 
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