72% of Americans do not believe in Evolution
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
Arikay said:Hmm, it appears I was right, and you skipped over my simple question again.
This question?
I can understand why you would ask, because I do play around trying to figure out different things. But for the most part all we need to do is be patient and wait on God. He will explain it all to us.
The Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven is a different sort of world then the one most people live in. Only things that honor and glorify God are allowed in. Only things that are of a good report:
Philip. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.
Paul tells us the kind of thoughts we are to have. We are to think on things that are true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, praiseworthy things. We are to live consecrated, sanctified lives, set apart from the things that do not please God or honor God.
I do not spend a lot of time looking at newspapers, TV, movies and things that do not honor God or represent God.
So, can you see even a little bit how we can know if something is of God or not? Is it praiseworthy, lovely, of a good report? Does it encourage, edify and build up in love? Does it strengthen us and bring healing to our bones and health to our marrow?
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wow that was a long non answer to the question.
Again, a little bit more guided.
John, what happens when your interpretation does not match gods creation? Do you keep your interpretation, do you change it, or do you pretend gods creation and your interpretation actually match (even when they dont)?
Again, a little bit more guided.
John, what happens when your interpretation does not match gods creation? Do you keep your interpretation, do you change it, or do you pretend gods creation and your interpretation actually match (even when they dont)?
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
Nathan Poe said:
It took billions of years to create you? Then why.......? Oh, I better let that one be.
Maybe we are both a skeptic. Your a skeptic when it comes to religion. Even Jesus was against the traditions of man. I tend to be a skeptic when it comes to science. I just keep observing things that bother me, as perhap you see things in religion that does not settle well with you.
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JohnR7 said:
You didn't read the post. Also you have shifted verses. You started with I Cor 3. And verse 4 shows that Paul is referring to a dispute between two MINISTERS. Him and a guy named Apollos. They are preaching different things. So Paul is telling the congregation in verse 19 not to trust to the wisdom of PREACHERS. Because all preachers are worldly.
Now you shift to 1 Corinthians 1, which means my proof about 1 Corinthians 3 must have been pretty good or you would not have shifted.
So let's look at these:
Out of context again. Back to 1 Cor. 1:11: "For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chlo'e, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you says, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos, and I of Ce'phas, and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"
Once again, we are talking about contentions due to different PREACHERS. Not to science or the world. This whole letter is extolling Paul and his preaching over that of Apollos and Ce'phas. You can see this again in 1 Cor. 2:1-4. Paul is losing this congregation to a rival, and the whole letter is a way to say Paul's words are right and the others wrong.
Let's give that in context of 1 Cor. 1:20-23 "Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of god the world by wisdom knew not God, it please God by the foolishness of them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness"
I already did this one. You have to go back to 1 Cor. 3:4 to understand what the chapter is about. It is a continuation of Paul's appeal of his message over Apollos'
John, a perfect example of my point! This is contiguous with 1 Cor. 1:20 you posted above but you post it as a SEPARATE argument, not part of that one. You have just done a Bible search on "wisdom" and posted all the verses that fit your position, haven't you? You have NO IDEA where or how these fit within the Bible.
THANK YOU! Another proof of my point above. This should be right behind your verse of 1 Cor. 3:19, shouldn't it? But it's not. You have NO IDEA about the Bible. You are just picking verses out of a search engine with no regard to what they REALLY mean in context.
THIRD proof of my point. This should be up with 1 Cor. 1:19 and 20. But you don't even realize that.
This is SOOO sad. My argument applies to all verses in 1 Corinthians.Whole verse: "For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, htat in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you."
Now, go down to verse 19: "For the Son of God , Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea."
Paul still has the problem of doctrine contrary to his message being preached to the Corinthians. Paul characterizes the other preacher as being "fleshly wisdom". This is NOT about science, but about different gospels and doctrine being preached by rival preachers.
Out of context again:verse 20: "Then he [Jesus] began to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not, Woe unto theee, Choraxin, woe unto thee Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. ... At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
Again, not science. Actually, this does not put Jesus in a good light. He is engaging in a conspiracy theory to explain why people didn't accept him. I guess creationists have some Biblical justification for your conspiracy theories. But I wouldn't be proud or shout about it.
Which is why I reject creationism -- as vain thoughts of man -- and go with what God says directly in His Creation.
From Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the Lord, they redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things, that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish."
Yes, the Lord that made the universe left evidence in Creation that frustrates the tokens of the liars of creationism and makes the diviners of creationism mad. It turns the "wise men" of creationism backwards and makes the "knowledge" of creationism foolish.
Thank you for those verses showing God's opinion of ignoring His Creation!
Which is why creationism is so wrong. After all, it is the "wisdom" of MAN saying MAN's interpretation of the Bible is more important than the wisdom God left in His Creation. Yep, creationism is "Man's wisdom and understanding is dug and fuel for the fire." Couldn't have given a better description of creationism myself. Thank you, John.
Since yours don't line up with the word of God in either the Bible or His Creation, you have just condemned your opinions as worthless. Good job!
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LewisWildermuth
Senior Veteran
JohnR7 said:
Interesting...
Can you support this idea? Where did it state God's plan in the Bible? Or are you just making stuff up again?
I also do not recall God ever calling Adam or Eve perfect, only very good. Again you seem to be making stuff up.
And here for those of you that spotted it too, is the danger or Biblical literalism and Creationism... It makes God into a bumbling fool.
Here an omnipotent God is forced to crumple up and toss a plan out a window because this all-knowing being could not see what people would do. Gee did his omnipotence slip? How could an all knowing God not know that the surest way to get a kid to do something is to tell them not to?
And yet another bumbling God that has to test people when He should already know the answer...
John, has it ever occurred to you that God does not need these tests what so ever? That the tests may just be to prove to yourself that you can do or handle something not prove to God who already knows it?
Personally, from what I have read of your posts, most of your "tests" are not from God, but your own twisted imagination.
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JohnR7 said:
Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that Adam and Eve really existed, (which they didn't), if they were created "in perfection" then how could they have sinned and rebelled? Perfect people don't do that, do they?
Congratulations, John. In the course of a paragraph you destroyed your own argument.
And what does this have to do with evolution? Are you saying that accepting evolution means you can't follow His will and plan?
John, you regularly duck questions. How about answering this one?
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Because people have used evidence from gods creation to falsify many of your claims.
So, since its often hard to get an answer from you, shall I take this as meaning that you think your interpretation is correct, and pretend it matches gods creation even when in reality it doesnt. That you take your interpretation over gods creation?
So, since its often hard to get an answer from you, shall I take this as meaning that you think your interpretation is correct, and pretend it matches gods creation even when in reality it doesnt. That you take your interpretation over gods creation?
JohnR7 said:
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Gracchus said:
And this is the danger of Biblical literalism. It makes a false god. Not the real one, but a false one with all the faults you have pointed out.
John, your "god" is not God. It is a false idol made by MEN.
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
LewisWildermuth said:
Everything God made, He said it was good. As they say: God don't make junk.
Genesis 1:31
And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
We are told that Job was a perfect man. If Job was perfect then how much more was Adam and Eve created in perfection.
Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Psalm 37:37
Mark the blameless man, and observe the upright;
For the future of that man is peace.
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O
Omnedon
Guest
samiam said:
And a similar proportion believe in UFO abduction and horoscopes.
Should we also respect UFO-ology and astrology also, just because a lot of people delude themselves?
(Yes, I know - someone already made this point - but I had to get my two cents in).
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Then your response to questions about them should be more along the line of "I don't know" than "they're all a bunch of lying nonsense." I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who come to creationism-evolution discussion boards attacking evolution left and right and then, when pinned down on specifics, announce that they actually don't know anything much about biology so they can't answer the questions, and then carry right on with the attacks. This is a lovely example of people unclear on the concept. If you don't know about a subject, you haven't earned the right to criticise it. It isn't enough to shrug off the weakness in your argument by saying you don't know about the subject and then continue to attack it. If you don't know about it, you shouldn't be attacking it.
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JohnR7 said:
Ummm..John? I left you quite a lengthy response in another thread asking you to explain some things about Adam and Eve. I am still waiting for my answers to that, if you would be so kind. The post regarding: Since you do not believe in evolution how is it that two people could produce 3 major races on this planet, etc .etc. I will be patiently waiting......I have asked a few people here, rather pointed questions, that cut to the heart of the matter but the only thing I get back is random Bible quotes (scratching head)???
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Beyond that, I think its a clear example of how Not to be christian and how Not to witness to people.
You see it all the time on these forums. A person who is christian thinks they are right, without actually studying what they are talking about. They make false claims, and sometimes come with an arrogant attitude. We can see this beyond evolution vs creationism, like people who come here to attack atheism, or satanism, or wicca, or etc. The majority dont have a clue about what they are attacking, but they do so anyway. A very bad example about what christianity is all about, and quite frankly probably one of the best deconversion tools in the world.
You see it all the time on these forums. A person who is christian thinks they are right, without actually studying what they are talking about. They make false claims, and sometimes come with an arrogant attitude. We can see this beyond evolution vs creationism, like people who come here to attack atheism, or satanism, or wicca, or etc. The majority dont have a clue about what they are attacking, but they do so anyway. A very bad example about what christianity is all about, and quite frankly probably one of the best deconversion tools in the world.
Cantuar said:
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Michali
Teleologist
Arikay said:
And who hurt Jesus? A betrayer. One who was of his own.
Christianity's worst enemy are it's "talkers". The "walker" has little care for voicing his opinion and realizes good done in subterfuge is sweeter than telling others to do it. What people hear comes from the pridefull, which Jesus condemned greatly. What people saw and felt came from the humble and gentle. You can never know a Christian through his title, only through his or her actions (and you have to search for those.) It would not surprise me to know that the world is influenced greatly through these truth seekers. I know they're out there. Those who have actually understood what Jesus was saying all along. Servanthood mixed with brotherhood toward eachother.
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JohnR7
Well-Known Member
LorentzHA said:
What are the three races? Black, white and everyone else?
Adam and Eve were created about 6000 years ago. I believe in the Land of Eden and the Garden of Eden God created a whole Biodiverse Ecology system. His plan was that Eden was to grow, expand and fill the world. But Adam and Eve fell into sin and then later their son Cain fell into sin. Adam and Eve were throw out of the Garden, Cain was thrown all the way out of Eden. This is what Cain said:
Genesis 4:14
Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."
Now, why would Cain be worried about someone killing him? Also, who did Cain marry? There must have been other people already in the world at that time. People that did not decend from Adam and Eve.
The Bible really does not talk about it that much. The Bible is mostly a story about Adam, Eve & their decendents. Life outside of the Garden was not as good a life in the Garden. Life outside of Eden was not as good as life was inside of Eden. Today we all have a choice, we can have life in the Garden of Eden in Paradise, we can live outside of the Garden in the Land of Eden, or (symbolic) we can be cast out all together and live out in the world, apart from Eden, apart from Paradise.
The Bible really only divides people into two groups.Saved and unsaved, righteous and unrighteous, holy and unholy, Hebrew and Gentile. Those who serve God and those who don't.
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