New Covenant ...is God's 10 Commandments...

Silver Surfer said:

And where do you read that ?

God 'BLESSED' only 1 day.....God only made 1 day 'HOLY', (Genesis 2:2,3).

God said to "REMEMBER the Sabbath day...to keep 'it' Holy..", (Exodus 20:8-11).

It is a test of loyalty to God whether a person obeys God or not, (Romans 6:16).

Click to expand...

Silver Surfer said:

"He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments ....is a ?...and the truth is not in him", (1 John 2:4).

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God....for it is not subject to the law of God...neither indeed can be", (Romans 8:7).

Click to expand...

[size=+1]Quoting verses of scripture out-of-context, over and over again, and ignoring the scriptures that others have posted does NOT make your view correct. For example, see the scriptures that Ben Johnson and I posted on the first page of this thread. God Himself said that the Sabbath was made ONLY for the children of Israel, the direct physical descendants of Israel. According to Gal 3:28, Christians are descendants of Abraham, NOT Israel.[/size]

OldShepherd said:

[size=+1]The Sabbath commandment is the only commandment which is NOT enjoined on the NT believer.[/size]

Click to expand...

The Sabbath that remains in Hebrews

Hebrews 4:9-10 “There remains, then, a Sabbath – rest [Sabbatismos] for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest {salvation} also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.” (NIV)

The Greek word translated Sabbath-rest is Sabbatismos and it refers to a physical keeping of the Sabbath. So if I accept salvation ie enter into God’s rest. I will also rest from my own work just as God did from his. And how did God rest as an example to us?

Hebrews 4:4 “…And on the seventh day God rested from all His work.”

All the ceremonial Sabbaths are done away because they have met there fulfilment in Christ. But the seventh day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is specifically mentioned as being one that ‘remains’. We who enter God’s rest ie salvation, are also to keep the physical rest of the Sabbath. We are to cease from our own works just as God did from His. That rest is specifically said to be a physical rest on the seventh day.

If the ten commandments are abolished as is falsely claimed then why are they in the New Covenant sanctuary in heaven.



REVELATION 11:19 “Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.”

The Ark of the Covenant is seen in heaven in the new covenant heavenly sanctuary in the Christian era where Jesus is the High Priest. This ark contains God’s mercy seat and the Ten Commandments that are the new covenant.

REVELATION 15:5 “After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.”

The heavenly sanctuary is called the tabernacle of the testimony. The tabernacle of the Ten Commandments. The testimony is the Ten Commandments. Ex 31:18. “And when he had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”. These verses prove that the Ten Commandments are in heaven in the temple of God where Jesus is the High Priest. Therefore the ten commandments have not been abolished but are a part of the new covenant.

REVELATION 14:12. “Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus”

God’s saints are those people who obey the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. The commandments of God are the Ten Commandments and the faith of Jesus is the teachings of Christ. The fact that John sees the ark of the Covenant in the New Covenant heavenly sanctuary proves that the Ten Commandments are being referred to.

REVELATION 12:17. “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
The dragon (Satan) makes war on Gods people who obey the commandments of God.

REVELATION 22:14 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and enter through the gates into the city.” (NKJV)

Only those people who do His commandments will eat from the tree of life.

OldShepherd said:

[size=+1]The Sabbath was given only to the children of Israel, NOT to all mankind. The ancient Jews considered any non-Jew who observed the Sabbath as worthy of death. The Sabbath commandment is the only commandment which is NOT enjoined on the NT believer.[/size]

Click to expand...

Actually, Since it was given to the house of Israel inso doing to most of the north part of the world, the Jews are only 2 ½ of the tribes of Israel being from Judah(you know this I?m sure), The lost ten tribes disappeared, many believe that We are in that house being of the tribe of Joseph(Canada, US, and Briton/commonwealth).

All I have to say, as a sunset to sunset participant I take pride in keeping the Sabbath day of the Lord, however I feel that churches who do practice Sunday worship if out of faith that the Lord rose on that day, have fulfilled this part of the law. Hence practice the law not out of compliance but faith as it was intended.

I think It is worse to make the Sabbath day of the Lord a great burden as some here do rather then take sanctity and use it for its true purpose which is a day for building a stronger relationship with God. That is fulfillment to the law by the law, which is not a good practice. (Do not wish to offend for I do not know if you do this or not, I?m only telling from my point of view)

I do however feel that as a church, you must take a stand on this issue, but as a person you must not lecture those who do other things in compliance by faith.

Protestant said:

The Sabbath that remains in Hebrews

Hebrews 4:9-10 “There remains, then, a Sabbath – rest [Sabbatismos] for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest {salvation} also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.” (NIV)

The Greek word translated Sabbath-rest is Sabbatismos and it refers to a physical keeping of the Sabbath. So if I accept salvation ie enter into God’s rest. I will also rest from my own work just as God did from his. And how did God rest as an example to us?

Hebrews 4:4 “…And on the seventh day God rested from all His work.”

All the ceremonial Sabbaths are done away because they have met there fulfilment in Christ. But the seventh day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is specifically mentioned as being one that ‘remains’. We who enter God’s rest ie salvation, are also to keep the physical rest of the Sabbath. We are to cease from our own works just as God did from His. That rest is specifically said to be a physical rest on the seventh day.

Click to expand...

[size=+1]I see you have ignored my previous posts also. And your post is not totally correct. You did not give the complete definition of "sabbatismos,"' which is,[/size]

• 
  1. a keeping sabbath
  2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

[size=+1]And the second "rest" in that passage, vs. 10, into which Christian's enter is NOT "sabbatismos," but "Katapausisa"[/size]

• 
  1. putting to rest
  2. calming of the winds
  3. a resting place
  4. metaph. the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended

[size=+1]The same word "Katapausisa," NOT "sabbatismos" also occurs in Heb 4:11, where the writer enjoins us to,[/size]

• 
  Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest [Katapausisa], lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

[size=+1]The Sabbath was given specifically to the children of, the man, Israel, not the divided kingdom Israel. And before the Christian era gentiles who observed the Sabbath, on any day of the week, were considered worthy of death by Jews. For documentation see my link, to the Jewish Encyclopedia, on the first page of this thread. Also on this subject you might want to read Colossians and Galatians.[/size]

OldShepherd said:

The Sabbath was given specifically to the children of, the man, Israel, not the divided kingdom Israel.

Click to expand...

What? Divided kingdom Israel(children of, the man, Israel) and the diffrence is? that makes no sence

DaTsar said:

Actually, Since it was given to the house of Israel inso doing to most of the north part of the world, the Jews are only 2 ½ of the tribes of Israel being from Judah(you know this I?m sure), The lost ten tribes disappeared, many believe that We are in that house being of the tribe of Joseph(Canada, US, and Briton/commonwealth).

I do however feel that as a church, you must take a stand on this issue, but as a person you must not lecture those who do other things in compliance by faith.

Click to expand...

[size=+1]No the Sabbath was given to the children of the man Israel before the kingdom was divided. Many people are wrong about the so-called ten lost tribes.

I agree to a point. I worship on Sunday as the church has done for 2000 years. I think that Paul was pretty clear on the matter of days in Romans, Galatians, and Colossians.[/size]

• 
  Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
  
  Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements Stoicheion of the world:
  4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
  
  8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
  9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements Stoicheion, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
  10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
  11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
  
  Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments Stoicheion of the world, and not after Christ
  16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
  17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
  20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments Stoicheion of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
  21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
  22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

[size=+1]Paul included himself as one who was previously in bondage to the elements Stoicheion, which he identifies as "holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:." But, he says, as Christians we are "dead with Christ from the rudiments/elements Stoicheion of the world."[/size]

I see you have ignored my previous posts also
no i read them and thought that they made a false arguement. I have heard all of these false objections before.


Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest [Katapausisa], lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Yes and since the christian church were sabbath keepers it would be illogical to tell them to enter into a rest that they were already keeping. There are 2 rests. the physical sabbath rest [sabbatosmos] and the spiritual rest. Israel were sabbath keepers but they did not enter that spiritual rest. We are told that Christians have a keeping of a sabbath that remains. ie Physical rest. Just as the Jews did. but unlike them we are also to labour to enter the spiritual rest they didnt have.

You have yet to explain the fact that the ten commandments are in the ark in heaven. IN sanctuary where Jesus is the high priest.

I worship on Sunday as the church has done for 2000 years
False. Sunday observance is a post apostolic thing that had its beginning in the second century and came from paganism and antisemitism


Romans 14:5-6 “One person esteems one day above another, another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

FAST DAYS. This verse is used by some to teach that the Sabbath of the Lord has been abolished. But Paul is talking about fast days not Sabbath days. The word “Sabbath” is not mentioned once in these verses. The word “fast” isn’t mentioned either but the whole context discusses the eating or the non eating of food and the days to do it. The context indicates that fast days are what Paul has in mind. The Jews used to fast twice per week. Some people in the Christian church were fasting as well. In order to separate themselves from the Jews they sought to fast on different days than the Jews. This led to a controversy about which days should be set aside for fasting. Paul responded by telling the Church at Rome that it did not matter what day a person fasts to the Lord but let each person settle it for himself in his own mind. If Paul taught that the Sabbath was abolished He would have said so at the beginning of the letter to the Romans not at the end as is the case here. When Paul taught that Circumcision was abolished it caused a massive controversy within the church. The fact that there was no controversy within the church regarding Sabbath observance indicates that Paul did not teach that it was abolished. To use this verse to teach the Sabbath has been abolished is to take the verse completely out of context and read into it what isn’t there.


“The book of Acts repeatedly pictures Paul as telling the Jews that he was true to the basic religion of their fathers as laid down in the law and the prophets (Acts 24:14). After his arrest he boldly asserted: “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended at all’ ” (chap 25:8). In the presence of Agrippa he declared: “ ‘And so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass’ ” (chap 26:22). Finally, in Rome he called together the Jews of that city and asserted that he had done nothing against the Jews or the customs of their fathers (chap28:17). How could he possibly make such assertions, which were not challenged, if he had taught the Gentiles to forsake the Sabbath and observe another day as the day of worship?” The Sabbath in Scripture and History. Ed K.Strand, Review and Herald 1982, p 124.

OldShepherd said:

[size=+1]No the Sabbath was given to the children of the man Israel before the kingdom was divided. Many people are wrong about the so-called ten lost tribes.

I agree to a point. I worship on Sunday as the church has done for 2000 years. I think that Paul was pretty clear on the matter of days in Romans, Galatians, and Colossians.[/size]

• 
  Ro 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Click to expand...

I hope you know you make no sence, if you think that the Jews are all the sons of Israel you are very wrong.The lost ten tribes of Israel as not so called they are fact!

here let me show you:

The 12 tribes of Israel/ sons of Israel:
Asher
Benjamin
Dan
Gad
Issachar
Joseph*
Judah
Levi
Naphtali
Reuben
Simeon
Zebulun

The name Jew comes from Judea which was comprised of 2 1/2 tribes of who split and made a new country named Judea.
These where:
Judah
Benjamin
a considerable part of the priestly tribe of Levi

This leaves 10 tribes which held the country of Israel, which where taken into captivity.

So then how exactly do the other 9 1/2 tribes not apply to the sabbath Law,if your saying that it was only given to the sons of Israel.

Another ponit:

Sunday was not the day the church has celebrated for 2000 year actually this was because they believe Jesus rose on the first day (which he might have) and because Sabbath keeper where prosecuted under certain roman emperors (many if not all apostles still kept the Sabbath day as the 7th) emperor Constantine of the roman catholic church solidified Sunday in canon law when he wrote anyone who kept Saturday should die (most Christian before then kept both one or the other) hence was born two theologies both survive up in till today.

So if you keep Sunday just cause it was written all that time ago in cannon law then I am afraid you are doing the very thing your fighting against.

Galatians 4:8-11 “…when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have laboured for you in vain.”



PAGAN CALANDER. In all of Paul’s churches there was a mixture of former Jews and Pagan converts. It is obvious from these verses that Paul is addressing Pagan converts. Serving those which by nature are not gods is idolatry, something that the Jews in Paul’s day were not guilty of. These former Pagans were ‘turning again’ or turning back to their practices of the past. Therefore the observance of days and months and seasons and years must refer to the pagan calendar. They cannot refer to the Sabbath of the Lord or the Jewish ceremonies because Pagans did not observe them. Since when were pagan converts “in bondage” to Jewish ceremonies before becoming Christians? And Paul would not refer to the religious calendar instituted by God as weak and beggarly elements. In fact he said in Romans 7:12 “the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.” He also called them “Oracles of God” (Rom 3:2) Stephen the deacon under inspiration from God called the laws of God given to Moses as “living Oracles” (acts 7:38). Clearly these weak and beggarly elements are not the laws of God given to Moses. Also Paul’s attitude towards the observance of the Jewish calendar in Colossians is totally different to his attitude to the observance of times here in Galatians. In Colossians 2:16 Paul says do not let anyone judge you regarding how you observe these times. However this is not Paul’s attitude here in Galatians. Paul’s attitude hear is one of fear. Obviously the observance of Pagan days here is not the same as the Jewish calendar in Colossians.

Question to the Seventh Day Adventists, How do you keep the Lords day Holy? I always get called you so I'm just wondering More.

DaTsar said:

What? Divided kingdom Israel(children of, the man, Israel) and the diffrence is? that makes no sence

Click to expand...

[size=+1]Israel, the man, was the father of the twelve tribes. After Solomon the kingdom split, the northern tribes were called Israel and the southern tribes were called Judaea. Read the scriptrures I posted the Sabbath was given to the children of the man Israel, NOT to the northern kingdom as you suggest.[/size]

I never said they belong to just the northren kingdom; what i said was that it went to the jews and the desendents of the 10 lost tribes of Isreal.

DaTsar said:

I hope you know you make no sence, if you think that the Jews are all the sons of Israel you are very wrong.The lost ten tribes of Israel as not so called they are fact!

Click to expand...

[size=+1]Read my post, I said nothing of the sort.[/size]

because Sabbath keeper where prosecuted under certain roman emperors

Click to expand...

[size=+1]Please prove it.[/size]

many if not all apostles still kept the Sabbath day as the 7th) emperor Constantine of the roman catholic church solidified Sunday in canon law when he wrote anyone

Click to expand...

[size=+1]Prove it. Constantine had nothing to do with Sunday worship. There was NO Roman Catholic church untril about 1100 AD.[/size]

So if you keep Sunday just cause it was written all that time ago in cannon law then I am afraid you are doing the very thing your fighting against.

Click to expand...

[size=+1]The earliest reference to day of worship in the early church fathers are recorded about 250 years before Constantine. None of the early church fathers speak of Sabbath worship. None. I can and have backed up every thing I say here on this forum.[/size]

• 
  The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians 8-10 (c. 110 A.D.)
  "Do not be deceived by strange doctrines or antiquated myths, since they are worthless. For if we continue to live accordance with Judaism, we admit that we have not received grace. For the most godly prophets lived in accordance with Christ Jesus. This is why they were persecuted, being inspired as they were by His grace in order that those who are disobedient might be fully convinced that there is one God who revealed Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word which came forth from silence, who in every respect pleased Him who sent Him. If, then, those who had lived in antiquated practices came to newness of hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and His death (which some deny), the mystery through which we came to believe, and because of which we patiently endure, in order that we might be found to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher, how can we possibly live without Him, whom even the prophets, who were His disciples in the Spirit, were expecting as their teacher? Because of this He for whom they rightly waited raised them from the dead when He came. Therefore let us not be unaware of His goodness. For if He were to imitate the way we act, we are lost. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live in accordance with Christianity. For whoever is called by any other name than this one does not belong to God. Throw out, therefore, the bad leaven, which has become stale and sour, and reach for the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted with Him, so that none of you become rotten, for by your odor you will be examined. It is utterly absurd to profess Jesus Christ and to practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, in which "every tongue" believed and "was brought together" to God." (10)
  
  The Epistle of Barnabas was probably not authored by the Barnabas of the New Testament. The writer repudiates the claims of Jewish Christians at the time who advocated adhering to observance of the Mosiac Law. He also argued that Christ provided salvation and man is no longer bound by the Law. This letter compares holy life to unrighteousness.
  
  Epistle of Barnabas 2:4-6 (c. 130 A.D.)
  "For He has made it clear to us through all the prophets that He needs neither sacrifices nor whole burnt offerings nor general offerings, saying on one occasion: 'What is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?' says the Lord. 'I am full of whole burnt offerings, and I do not want the fat of lambs and blood of bulls and goats, not even if you come to appear before Me. For who demanded these things from your hands? Do not continue to trample My court. If you bring fine flour, it is in vain; incense is detestable to Me; your new moons and sabbaths I cannot stand.' Therefore He has abolished these things, in order that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is free from the yoke of compulsion, might have its offering, one not made by man."
  
  Epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 (c. 130 A.D.)
  "Finally, He says to them: 'I cannot bear your new moons and sabbaths.' You see what He means: it is not the present sabbaths that are acceptable to Me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath, after I have set everything at rest, I will create the beginning of an eighth day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven." (11)
  
  The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles was an 11th century manuscript discovered by Philotheus Bryennois. It consists of various parts, starting with the Two Ways ethical instruction and including community rules for liturgical practices and leadership conduct, before ending with a short apocalyptic section. While some of the material might go back before the year 100 A.D., the current form of the document probably dates to the mid-second century at the earliest.
  
  The Didache (or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) 14:1 (c. 70 A.D.)
  "On the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." (12)
  
  The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus (c. 260-339 A.D.) is probably one of the most important works on early Church history available, covering the events of its first three centuries. As one born during the early Church period, Eusebius was an able historian who had a close view of the events that helped shape the historical and theological developments of the early Church.
  
  Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 1, Chapter 5 (c. 315 A.D.)
  "For as the name Christians is intended to indicate this very idea, that a man, by the knowledge and doctrine of Christ, is distinguished by modesty and justice, by patience and a virtuous fortitude, and by a profession of piety towards the one and only true and supreme God; all this no less studiously cultivated by them than by us. They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath, neither do we; neither do we abstain from certain foods, nor regard other injunctions, which Moses subsequently delivered to be observed in types and symbols, because such things as these do not belong to Christians." (13)
  
  Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 27 (c. 315 A.D.)
  "The Ebionites cherished low and mean opinions of Christ. For they considered Him a plain and common man, and justified only by His advances in virtue, and that He was born of the Virgin Mary, by natural generation. With them the observance of the law was altogether necessary, as if they could not be saved, only by faith in Christ and a corresponding life. These, indeed, thought on the one hand that all of the epistles of the apostles ought to be rejected, calling him an apostate from the law, but on the other, only using the gospel according to the Hebrews, they esteem the others as of little value. They also observe the Sabbath and other discipline of the Jews, just like them, but on the other hand, they also celebrate the Lords days very much like us, in commemoration of His resurrection." (14)
  
  Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, Chapter 23 (c. 315 A.D.)
  "The churches throughout the rest of the world observe the practice that has prevailed from apostolic tradition until the present time, so that it would not be proper to terminate our fast on any other but the day of the resurrection of our Savior. Hence there were synods and convocations of the bishops on this question; and all unanimously drew up the ecclesiastical decree, which they communicated to all the churches in all places, that the mystery of our Lords resurrection should be celebrated on no other day than the Lords day." (15)
  
  Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (c. 178 A.D.)
  "The duty of celebrating the mystery of the resurrection of our Lord may be done only on the day of the Lord." (16)
  
  Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.) lived during the reign of Antonius Pius and suffered martyrdom in 165 A.D. during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. He was an enthusiastic evangelist of the Gospel, and after traveling widely throughout the Roman Empire settled in Rome as a Christian teacher. While there, neighboring philosophers plotted against him because of his Christian profession, brought him up before the Roman authorities, who carried out his execution by beheading him.
  
  The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 67
  "And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things ... But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead." (17)

None of the early church fathers speak of Sabbath worship. None. I can and have backed up every thing I say here on this forum.

Not only dont you post scripture to support sunday observance you are resorting to forgeries.

The Didache
14:1 And on the Lord's own day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks, first confessing your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.


The didache, a sort of baptismal, organisational, or instructional manual, has been dated anywhere from the late first century to the late second century. The document seems to have originated in Syria. The statement in chapter 14 of interest here reads as follows. Kata kuriaken de kuriou sunaxthentes klasate arton kai euxaristesate – “On the Lord’s of the Lord [or, “According to the Lord’s of the Lord”] assemble, break bread, and hold Eucharist.” The word “day” (Greek hemeran, in the accusative case) does not actually appear in the text, but most translators have added it in their English translation, making the test read as follows: “On the Lord’s day….” Some students of the text would, however, suggest the rendition “According to the Lord’s commandment…” – also a possible translation of the original Greek. Samuele Bacchiocchi, following a rendition of John Baptiste Thibaut and supporting it with a rather impressive line of evidence, gives a similar translation: “According to the sovereign doctrine of the Lord” “ “The Sabbath in Scripture and History” Ed K. Strand. Review and Herald Pub Acc Washington 1982 p 347-348



Ignatius’ epistle to the Magnesians. Chapter 8-9 (Short Version)

CHAPTER 8 – Warning against Judaism
Be not led astray by strange doctrines or by old fables which are profitless. For if we are living until now according to Judaism, we confess that we have not received grace. For the divine prophets lived according to Jesus Christ. Therefore they were also persecuted, being inspired by His grace, to convince the disobedient that there is one God, who manifested Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word, proceeding from silence, who in all respects was well-pleasing to Him that sent Him.

CHAPTER 9 -- Life with Christ.
If, then they who walked in ancient customs came to a new hope, no longer living for the Sabbath, but for the Lord's Day, on which also our life sprang up through him and His death—though some deny Him,-- and by this mystery we received faith, and for this reason also we suffer, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher; if these things be so, how then shall we be able to live without Him of whom even the prophets were disciples in the Spirit and to whom they looked forward as their Teacher? And for this reason He whom they waited for in righteousness when he came raised them from the dead. Quoted from “The Protestant Dilemma”, Richard Lewis, Ph.D. Pacific Press Publishing Association California. 1961. pp 45-46

This passage is often used to prove that the early Christians just after the death of the apostles were Sunday observers. And that the expression “Lord’s day” refers to Sunday. However a careful reading of the passage shows no such thing. The above chapters written by Ignatius of Antioch are saying that the Old Testament prophets who lived and died before Jesus appeared had stopped observing the seventh-day Sabbath in the manner that the Jews kept it. They became observers of Sunday – the Lord’s day -- and were persecuted for it. And we will do the same if we are to be disciples of Jesus Christ. There are some problems with this. The most obvious is the fact that NO Old Testament prophet was a Sunday observer. Surely Ignatius would have known that. So that raises the question, why would Ignatius write something as absurd as the idea that the Old Testament prophets were Sunday observers? The answer is simple. He didn’t. The Greek word (hemera‘Day’) is NOT in the epistle. Ignatius did not say “Lords’ day”. The word “day” was added by the translators. The actual text as found in the earliest extant manuscript reads as follows “meketi sabbatizontes alla kata kuriaken zoen zontes.” The normal rendering of this expression (unless a cognitive accusative is intended) would be: “no longer sabbatizing, but living according to the Lord’s life”.

“A distinguished patristic scholar, Robert A. Kraft, has provided the following translation of the original Ignatius of the early second century: - “If, then those who walked in the ancient customs [ie the aforementioned prophets] came to have a new hope, no longer ‘sabbatizing’ but living in accord with the Lord’s life- in which there sprang up also our life through him and through his death.” “The Sabbath in Scripture and History” Ed K. Strand. Review and Herald Pub Acc Washington 1982 p 348-349

“The fact that Ignatius urges Christians to stop “practicing Judaism” (Magnesians 8:1) or “living like Jews” (10:3) and to follow the example of the prophets in not Judaizing on the Sabbath, implies that many Christians were still following traditional Jewish customs, especially in the manner of Sabbath keeping.” “From Sabbath to Sunday” Samuele Bacchiocchi , The Pontifical Gregorian University press , Rome, 1977. p 216.

Sabbath observance in the early church

Josephus says

"There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!" M'Clathie, Notes and Queries on China and Japan. (edited by Dennys),Vol.4, Nos. 7,8, p.100.

In the 2nd Century

"The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;..therefore the Christians for a long time together, did keep their conventions on the Sabbath, in which some portion of the Law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council." The Whole Works of Jeremey Taylor, Vol. IX, p416 (R. Heber's Edition, Vol.XII, p.416)

"The gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath." Gieseler's Church History, Vol.1, ch.2, par.30, p.93.

"The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and did spend the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to that purpose." Dialogues on the Lord's Day. p.189. London: 1701. By Dr. T. H. Morer.(church of England divine)

"The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and by keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but the command of Jesus." Geschichte des Sonntags, pp.13,14.

"It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord's day by the Christians of the East Church) three hundred years after the Saviour's death." A learned Treatise of the Sabbath, p.77.

In the 3rd Century.

"The seventh-day Sabbath was.. solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in a manner quite abolish the observation of it." Dissertation on the Lord's Day, pp.33,34,44.

"As early as A.D.225 their existed large bishoprics or conferences of the church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India."Mingana, Early Spread of Christianity. Vol.10, p.460.

"Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the Law, not for idleness of the hands." The Anti-Nicene Fathers, Vol.7, p 413, From Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, A document of the 3rd and 4th centuries.

"After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice [the crucifixion] is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a Sabbatismus, that is a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God [Heb 4:9]" Homily on Numbers 23, par.4, in Migne, Patrologia Greaca, Vol. 12, cols.749,750.

In the 4th Century.

"It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west..For in the church of Millaine [Milan];.. it seemes the Saturday was held in farre esteeme ..Not that the Easterne churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme [Judaism]; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus [Jesus] Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." History of the Sabbath (original Spelling
retained) Part 2, par. 5, pp. 73,74, London: 1636, Dr. Heylyn.

"The ancient Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh day..It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival..Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same." Antiquities of the Christian Church,
Vol. II, Book XX, chap. 3, Sec. 1, 66.1137, 1138

"From the apostles' time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observation of the Jew's Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it. Sunday a Sabbath, John Ley, p.163 London 1640.

"Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb 'When you are in Rome, do as Rome does,' " Heylyn, The History of the Sabbath, 1613

In the 5th Century.

"Down even to the fifth century the observance of the Jewish Sabbath was continued in the Christian church." Ancient Christianity Exemplified, Lyman Coleman, Ch.26, sec. 2, p.527.

"In Jerome's day (420 A.D.) the devoutest Christians did ordinary work on Sunday." Treatise of the Sabbath Day. by Dr. White, Lord Bishop of Ely, p.210.

"For although almost all Churches throught the world celebrate the sacred mysteries [the Lord's Supper] on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." The footnote which accompanies the foregoing quotation explains the use of the word "Sabbath" It says : "That is, upon the Saturday. It should be observed, that Sunday is never called 'the Sabbath' by the ancient Fathers and historians." Sacrates, Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, chap. 22, p. 289.

OldShepherd

You have misunderstood me quite a few times so let me once and for all try and clear things Up.

First I am not a Seventh Day Adventist;

My belief in regards to the law is simple; It still applies however looking at the law and complying to it through procedure, tradition or rules is wrong. The only way to follow the law is by faith and in so the written law is not more then a guild, not a how to guild; hence you must follow the law by faith.

So in regard to the Sabbath, the concept of it must be there but the day is un-important and so if you do it Sunday or if you do it Sabbath day, it doesn’t matter. You still complete the forth commandment.

However I believe churches must take stands in this regard be it for Sunday or be it for the Sabbath day. Why, because as a community of worshiper we do still need common practice and a common day to get closer to the lord. However the bases of the belief as to why you practice on that day must be establish; so for Sunday because the Lord raised that day, or for the Sabbath because it was set apart by God.

In regard to the Israel thing, as I said before there was a misunderstanding I was only mention something because you made it sound as though you thought that the Sabbath day was only given to the Jews, this was a problem on my part, and for it I am sorry.

About the comment:

because Sabbath keeper where prosecuted under certain roman emperors”

Click to expand...

This simply put was a generalized truth you see, In the time before emperor Constantine
The Sabbath (law abiding Christians) where prosecuted the same way Sunday keeper were persecuted like every other Christian. After Constantine they continued to be persecuted because they were generalized as Jews.

About the comment:

many if not all apostles still kept the Sabbath day as the 7th) emperor Constantine of the roman catholic church solidified Sunday in canon law

Click to expand...

First, remember I am not trying to say all Christians before this point where following the Sabbath day (nor need to), but there where three ideas in the regard by those early Christians in that era. Some kept just Sunday, some the Sabbath, some both. As they still do.

When Constantine converted to Christianity he followed the Idea of Sunday worship. So when writing the laws of the Church he wrote a cannon. That I believe said something like

Sunday is the day of worship; If anyone makes the day Saturday (sun set to sun set) then they have jewfied themselves

Click to expand...

and in saying they make them selves like the Jews, this put a big red mark on their head that said “kill me”. hence I said he put send them to die. I am not saying that he made up the Sunday worship, what I’m saying is that he enforced Sunday worship. I am not calling him evil. I said Roman Catholic Church because is the largest raiment of that church in which Constantine took part in building.

Now I can give you tons of reasons as to why the Sabbath should be kept sun set to sun set however I feel this would be a pointless move because You by faith have reason for the day to be Sunday and I have no problem saying that in the time after Jesus Sunday was deemed a holy day.

I worship on Sunday as the church has done for 2000 years

Click to expand...

my problem with this statement was that you clam that there was only one church, hence you said Sunday is the day of worship. I as a Sabbath follower am then for offend by that statement. I only want to point out that both ways have exist since the time of Christ.

I would love to give you more sources but my sources are mostly from books and all the Internet seems to be bringing up is SDA opinions. But I don’t think you should have a problem with what I have stated was history because it is history after all.