Creationists: Is your Biblical interpretation correct?

DaTsar said:

I don't believe in a 6000 year old universe nor does the bible say that.

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then I have no issue with you in that matter then. my post was aimed at people who do believe in a Young Earth. forgive me if conversations get crossed, as Christians often believe a variety of different things, and without familiarity with a particular poster, it is impossible to know what an individual believes about things like the age of everything.

Arikay said:

Yeah the bible doesnt "say" that, however people have used other verses and walked back to get a time of around 6000 years.

Bishop Ussher was the first (or the most famous, not sure), to do this, and he put creation at 4004 B.C.

An interesting aspect to that is that the bible more dirrectly and literally says the earth is flat, than the earth is 6000 years old.

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So you think that one day for God is the same as one day for us?

DaTsar said:

So you think that one day for God is the same as one day for us?

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some people do, but there are problems even if you say that a day isn't 24 hours. the key here is the method that is used. what method do you believe God used to make everything, and do you believe in the global flood?

Nope. but some people do.

DaTsar said:

So you think that one day for God is the same as one day for us?

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Look at that consensus without movement a rare thing to see on any forum

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.(2 peter 2:8)

I bring up this important quote not to prove somehow that this proves how long a day with God is, but so that you can see that with God 7 days could be any length of time. And that to narrow your mind to believe that the earth is 6000 years old is quite naive don't you think. And God is who inspired Genesis is he not?

As for the worldwide flood, you know it consumed the known World (roman empire), which was the population that matter for the point of the story to come across, does it really matter if he was referring to the known world or the whole world?

DaTsar said:

Look at that consensus without movement a rare thing to see on any forum

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.(2 peter 2:8)

I bring up this important quote not to prove somehow that this proves how long a day with God is, but so that you can see that with God 7 days could be any length of time. And that to narrow your mind to believe that the earth is 6000 years old is quite naive don't you think. And God is who inspired Genesis is he not?

As for the worldwide flood, you know it consumed the known World (roman empire), which was the population that matter for the point of the story to come across, does it really matter if he was referring to the known world or the whole world?

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exactly, time is meaningless to god from that passage. and no, it doesn't need to be a global flood, again it is a figurative, and could well be referring only to a global event. we agree on everything so far, how about your opinion on the method god used to create?

God makes a system that both grows in it self and requires his intervention.

So i do agree with you both, I guess i'm just so use to having to debate on this subject, i can't even see those who agree with me anymore.Not a good sign.

well I am not so sure about the intervention, but it is nice that you can appreciate the magnificence of the universe and attribute this to God, rather than attempt to separate it from God.

DaTsar said:

Genesis:
Day in the time of the beginning was in God time not human time. And Adam did die because he ate the apple and conceivably within one of God?s days.

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Well, there goes a six-day creation. A day to God could be 65 million years. He might have just woken up and asked, "Weren't there dinosaurs around yesterday? What'd I miss?"

Luke:
The entire world in those days was the Roman Empire, Context.

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Granted, but that still leaves a serious problem. The Romans taxed their empire province-by-province. They would not have had the bureaucracy to collect tax from their entire empire at once, and there's no record that they ever tried.

First of all, God made the bible to be understood literally to His people. The problem actually lies within the translations of the bible that we deal with...

Genesis 2:17
But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.

I take that literally. And so should every Christian. When Adam went against God's command, he brought sin into this world and death is the punishment for all sin. Note that God is not saying that when you eat the fruit you will die instantly. He is saying that you will die, period. Adam didn't fall into sin until he was about 100 years old or so. So for 100 years, nothing died. Adam brought death.

Luke 2:1
In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.

I don't see how people can not take this literally. Ceasar wanted tax. Therefore he created a census for the entire Roman empire. However, I have read a few translations like the King James Version, which says that the census should be taken of the entire world. But you must understand that the entire world to them was there own roman empire. And even if he did literally mean the entire world (which he didn't), do we not pay taxes today?

Job 38:8
Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb.

This is still a literal since of thinking. First you have to understand what the 38th chapter of Job is all about. God is simply answering Job with questions to describe his power. If you want to know what that exact verse means, read Psalms 104:6, Proverbs 8:29 and Jeremiah 5:22. All those print out a more clearly, literal since of this verse. God is telling Job that he made the earth so that the land holds back the water. God "shut" the water in with land like a door shuts you in a room. You must understand that this is God talking to Job, for his own understanding.

I also believe that God created the universe in six literal 24 hour solar days. He did this to create a model for His people. Christians know that we work 6 days of the week and rest on the sabbath. He also created a model for the way we live. That's why we have 7 day weeks. God could have simply made everything in 0 seconds because he is outside of time but he made it in six 24-hour days and a day of rest to establish a pattern for man. Evolutionists try to fit billions of years into the bible to credit their fairytale, but it doesn't work. If you read it correctly, God created the darkness as night and the light as day. Then he prefaced the literal days with morning and evening which make them 24 hour solar days. Therefore, if you think that the 6 days of creation were billions of years, you're not understanding the bible correctly, yet you are fitting it into your own twisted views.

Exodus 20:9-11 explains why we should rest on the sabbath and why God made it holy. "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Which gives you even more clarity on the pattern he made for His people.

Nothing died?

Hmm, so let me get this straight, god told all the animals to "be fruitfull and multiply" yet none of them died. Poor adam, Im sure he was breathing down bugs into his lungs by the time he ate that fruit.

So, do you believe the earth is flat or round?

DaTsar said:

Well let?s start with the creation of the universe. The theory of the Big Bang or any other theory I have read on the creation of something from nothing seem to me unfounded. This is because there is no way that something can come from nothing or that something
Can exist without first being nothing.

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Did I read what you said correctly? You disbelieve the big bang theory because "there is no way that something can come from nothing or that something Can exist without first being nothing." Yet you believe Genesis 1:1 when it essentially says the same thing?

Nothing died?

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You have to understand that for about 100 years or so the earth was paradise and was like heaven. God walked with his people. Nobody ate meat, not even animals. There was no death or killing. But as soon as Adam disobeyed God, everything changed and our penalty for sin was and still is death.

Romans 5:12 says that there was no death until Adam sinned, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." You can also read I Corinthians 15:20 and James 1:14. They will tell you the same thing.

And I believe, from natural evidence and logic that the earth is round.

Did I read what you said correctly? You disbelieve the big bang theory because "there is no way that something can come from nothing or that something Can exist without first being nothing." Yet you believe Genesis 1:1 when it essentially says the same thing?

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But something did not come from nothing. This "Something" we call the universe came from God. God is OUTSIDE of time and all scientific laws because he created them. We do not and will not ever be capable of understanding this logic because then you would simply be God yourself.

You ignored what I said. IF there was no death, but there was procreation, the earth would fill up with animals. Awhile ago I did the math based on the current reproductive rate of bunnies, and I think I figured that if No bunny died, but they continued to procreate, there would be 1 bunny per square foot of the earth in 16 (I think it was 16, I should do the math again for fun) years. And that is Only bunnies.

A literal reading of the bible says the earth is flat. Why do you ignore the bible?

Why do you choose to ignore the bible and choose science when it comes to the shape of the earth, but not creation?

chud247 said:

You have to understand that for about 100 years or so the earth was paradise and was like heaven. God walked with his people. Nobody ate meat, not even animals. There was no death or killing. But as soon as Adam disobeyed God, everything changed and our penalty for sin was and still is death.

Romans 5:12 says that there was no death until Adam sinned, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." You can also read I Corinthians 15:20 and James 1:14. They will tell you the same thing.

And I believe, from natural evidence and logic that the earth is round.

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However, you've illustrated the point I was trying to make. You can't just take those passages at literal, face-value. They need to be interpreted within a specific context, sometimes with extra-Biblical evidence.

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I don't see how you would need any other extra-biblical evidence to understand Job 38:8. As long as you have read before that verse, God is just helping Job and possibly those who read it (us) better understand his power. He shut the water in with land, like a door. The original word for the english translation "door" could have meant many meanings in the hebrew language (wall, block, gate, etc.)

Is it not possible that God was telling whoever wrote Genesis 1 a story of creation for their own understanding? In other words, why do you not apply the same rules for interpreting Job 38:8 to Genesis 1?

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Because it was not made for the authors understanding. God told Moses to write Genesis so His people could understand creation, God's awesome power and the first geneology family lines. Again, God prefaced the 6, 24 hours days with day and night. Which makes them 6, 24 hour solar days.

Also, does this mean animals are capable of sin?

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The bible clearly tells us that all creation groans due to sin. Romans 8:21 states "creation [is in] bondage to decay". Meaning all creation by God is affected by sin.

You ignored what I said. IF there was no death, but there was procreation, the earth would fill up with animals. Awhile ago I did the math based on the current reproductive rate of bunnies, and I think I figured that if No bunny died, but they continued to procreate, there would be 1 bunny per square foot of the earth in 16 (I think it was 16, I should do the math again for fun) years. And that is Only bunnies.

A literal reading of the bible says the earth is flat. Why do you ignore the bible?

Why do you choose to ignore the bible and choose science when it comes to the shape of the earth, but not creation?

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Death didn't enter the world until about 100 years after Adam was created. Life was new, God controlled everything, everything was happy and multiplied happily. In fact, multiplication of humans and animals was probably more rapid then it is now because pregnancy or giving birth did not hurt. However, life started in one place on the earth. And as everything multiplied, over 100 years or so, we were able to cover the earth with life in all types. And because there was no sin, there would have been no worries of overly populated insects.

As for the Bible stating that the earth is flat. Nowhere have I read that it says the earth is flat. I do know of areas in the bible where it states "the four corners of the earth" which is simply north, south, east and west. There are verses describing the "ends of the earth" of which the LOCAL land does in fact end at the sea shore AND there actually are plate edges or "ends" in the LOCAL land that collide. But in various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and that it is suspended in space. Read Isaiah 40:22 and Job 26:7.

chud247 said:

But something did not come from nothing. This "Something" we call the universe came from God. God is OUTSIDE of time and all scientific laws because he created them. We do not and will not ever be capable of understanding this logic because then you would simply be God yourself.

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I agree. Atheists can not understand God's Creation because they do not have the Mind of Christ. Their problem is not with science, it is with the Word of God. The Bible says the earth was created in six literal days, and that is what I believe.

God says it, I believe it, that settles it.