Bush military record lies exposed on 60 minutes?

PatrickM · Sep 9, 2004

pearlz said:
Your wrong, it becomes a BIG thing when you are president and it turns out you cant tell the truth about anything. Tsk Tsk Tsk

What I'm saying is all this is not a big deal according to ANG proceedures, which, I would think, would be the ones who would most be concerned about it.

And, again, he didn't lie about anything! Did you actually read my entire post? Whether he 1) decided not to take a physical because he chose not to be on flight status, or 2) he was removed from flight status because he voluntarily did not take the flight physical, they're the same thing!

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

PatrickM said:
What I'm saying is all this is not a big deal according to ANG proceedures, which, I would think, would be the ones who would most be concerned about it.

And, again, he didn't lie about anything! Did you actually read my entire post? Whether he 1) decided not to take a physical because he chose not to be on flight status, or 2) he was removed from flight status because he voluntarily did not take the flight physical, they're the same thing!

There is a big Difference. He was SUSPENDED. SUSPENDED for not taking the physical after disobeying a DIRECT ORDER TO DO SO!. Face it, hes a lieing cheat and will do aything to cover his a**. He had to have help to get into guard, and from what ive been hearing, that Honerable discharge took some crafty work to get too. (By his daddys friends)

PatrickM · Sep 9, 2004

pearlz said:
There is a big Difference. He was SUSPENDED. SUSPENDED for not taking the physical after disobeying a DIRECT ORDER TO DO SO!.

Argh! He was not SUSPENDED. He was removed from flight status. Did you know there are hundreds of officers in the Guard, and only a fraction have flight status? It is entirely routine to be an officer and not have flight status!

Face it, hes a lieing cheat and will do aything to cover his a**. He had to have help to get into guard, and from what ive been hearing, that Honerable discharge took some crafty work to get too. (By his daddys friends)

Face it, you have nothing, nothing that shows he lied. Please get your facts, and not just your desire to bash him. Again, I ask, have you ever been in the Guard? I repeat, I saw all this happen all the time without even blinking an eye. No one, the base commander, unit commanders, even the Tactical Air Command saw this as anything but routine, but all you civilians seem to see what the commanders themselves do not.

And I resent your implication that by "pulling strings" all ANG regulations can be simply avoided. Aside from "what you've been hearing", do you have any proof his discharge was anything other than routine?

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

PatrickM said:
Argh! He was not SUSPENDED. He was removed from flight status. Did you know there are hundreds of officers in the Guard, and only a fraction have flight status? It is entirely routine to be an officer and not have flight status!

Face it, you have nothing, nothing that shows he lied. Please get your facts, and not just your desire to bash him. Again, I ask, have you ever been in the Guard? I repeat, I saw all this happen all the time without even blinking an eye. No one, the base commander, unit commanders, even the Tactical Air Command saw this as anything but routine, but all you civilians seem to see what the commanders themselves do not.

And I resent your implication that by "pulling strings" all ANG regulations can be simply avoided. Aside from "what you've been hearing", do you have any proof his discharge was anything other than routine?

If i had nothing you wouldnt be getting so upset. Its the truth. He has never uttered a single honest word. When i see him, the 1st thing i think is "whats he lieing about now". This is just another bit of the HUGE puzzle. He was SUSPENDED, he DIDNT complete his dutys to the TANG and i really doubt he earned a "Honerable" discharge. He has continually lied to this country and he will always lie to this country.

Once a cheat, always a cheat.
Once a lier, always a lier.

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

You probley cant read this if you dont belong to this site but thats what it says
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/09/bush_guard_duty/index.html

On Oct. 1, 1973, Bush received an honorable discharge from the Texas Air National Guard in order to move to Boston and attend the Harvard Business School, where he was still obligated to find a unit in Massachusetts to fulfill his remaining nine months of duty, or face being placed on active duty. Once again, Bush made no such effort. But the Air Force in Denver, acting retroactively, in effect overturned Bush's honorable discharge and placed him on "Inactive Status" effective Sept. 15, 1973. When Bush left Texas, his personnel file was sent to Denver for review. The ARPC quickly realized Bush had failed to take a required physical exam, his Texas superior could not account for his whereabouts covering nearly a 12-month period, and due to absenteeism Bush had failed to "satisfactorily participate" as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. Bush's "Inactive Status" meant his relationship with the Air Force (and the Guard) was severed and he was therefore eligible for the draft.

Soon afterward, large gaps began appearing in Bush's paper trail. Lukasiak concludes that only last-minute intervention, likely from Bush's local Houston draft board, saved him from active duty, as well as finally securing his honorable discharge, removing his "Inactive Status." Ironically, that means strings were pulled to get Bush out of the Guard in 1973, just as they were pulled to get him enrolled in 1968.

http://www.glcq.com/fraud_text.htm#_FRAUDULENT_PAY_AND
But you can go there to the guy who did the research.

PatrickM · Sep 9, 2004

pearlz said:
If i had nothing you wouldnt be getting so upset. Its the truth. He has never uttered a single honest word. When i see him, the 1st thing i think is "whats he lieing about now". This is just another bit of the HUGE puzzle. He was SUSPENDED, he DIDNT complete his dutys to the TANG and i really doubt he earned a "Honerable" discharge. He has continually lied to this country and he will always lie to this country.

Once a cheat, always a cheat.
Once a lier, always a lier.

LOL! Ok, what exactly does "suspended" mean? Like he had after-school detention? What ANG reg defines "suspended"? (Hint: THERE'S NO SUCH STATUS IN THE GUARD).

I'm upset at your total lack of knowledge regarding the facts about the ANG. You seem to believe in the Nazi propaganda slogan: Yell a lie loud enuf, often enuf, it will become the truth.

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

PatrickM said:
Yell a lie loud enuf, often enuf, it will become the truth.

LMAO!!! Thats BUSH"S LINE!!! You know, things like the econemy is better, WMD's, Saddam=osama, Im keeping you safe, Be afraid, be very afriad, TERROR WARNING, the list gets longer everyday. :clap:

PatrickM · Sep 9, 2004

pearlz article said:
On Oct. 1, 1973, Bush received an honorable discharge from the Texas Air National Guard in order to move to Boston and attend the Harvard Business School, where he was still obligated to find a unit in Massachusetts to fulfill his remaining nine months of duty, or face being placed on active duty.

Where shall I begin? Salon.com? Enuf said.

In addition, this is blatently false in that one does not get "honorably discharged" from a unit unless one has fulfilled his military obligation. He would have been transferred to another unit until his MSO (military service obligation - but you knew this already, right?) had been fulfilled. It never happens that anyone is discharged from one unit to go to another unit. This process is called a transfer.

Ah, well, you win. I spent 6 years in CAANG personnel, but you know more than I. I guess you'd doubt my Honorable Discharge, as well?

Enjoy you're land of Oz.

PatrickM · Sep 9, 2004

pearlz said:
LMAO!!! Thats BUSH"S LINE!!! You know, things like the econemy is better, WMD's, Saddam=osama, Im keeping you safe, Be afraid, be very afriad, TERROR WARNING, the list gets longer everyday.

Have you any answer to my question regarding the ANG reg defining "suspended"?

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

PatrickM said:
LOL! Ok, what exactly does "suspended" mean? Like he had after-school detention? What ANG reg defines "suspended"? (Hint: THERE'S NO SUCH STATUS IN THE GUARD).

.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf

pearlz · Sep 9, 2004

PatrickM said:
Ah, well, you win. I spent 6 years in CAANG personnel, but you know more than I. I guess you'd doubt my Honorable Discharge, as well?

Enjoy you're land of Oz.

Why would you think i ever questioned YOUR service? Are you so tight with Bush that you think he is questioned you should be questioned? I NEVER stated that you didnt serve honerably, and i am insulted that you would make that connection. I love our miltary. I Grew up Next to one of the biggest AF Bases in the world. My mother worked there, my father worked there. How many times do we have to say it, Just because we dont believe Bush, and we dont support the war, dosent mean we dont support the troops. And BTW, My brother died in Iraq, so yea, i do know a bit.

Voter · Sep 9, 2004

...George W. Bush was suspended from flying for the Texas Air National Guard ... came as Bush was trying to arrange a transfer to ... Alabama ... A memo written a year later referred to one military official "pushing to sugar coat" Bush's evaluation.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_guard

burrow_owl · Sep 9, 2004

If he was suspended from flying, it sorta makes you wonder about the veracity of his autobiography, in which he writes something like 'I finished my service flying for the NG.'

MethodMan · Sep 9, 2004

Satan couldn't be happier. 54 days of this to go.

CZzyzx41 · Sep 9, 2004

Exactly. Bush did not serve honorably. John Kerry may have overexaggerated to obtain his medals and therefore possibly didn't serve honorably (though he at least did serve in combat and was on the front lines). So why don't they both drop the Vietnam/Military Service bit before they both look like idiots. Wait. Too late.

Why don't we talk about topics that really matter? You know, like gay marriage and abortion and boy scouts and other things that won't ever affect me in any way.

Cause it's too difficult to even think of bringing up the economy or healthcare or the homeless or our utility prices. THe fact that my wife and I both have to work in San Diego just to support ourselves, let alone any children. The way it's getting as soon as they're born our kids will have to go out and earn a living as well just to keep food on the table. But let us not talk about that. Let's focus on gay marriage and Vietnam instead.

Voter · Sep 9, 2004

CZzyzx41 said:
Exactly. Bush did not serve honorably. John Kerry may have overexaggerated to obtain his medals and therefore possibly didn't serve honorably (though he at least did serve in combat and was on the front lines). So why don't they both drop the Vietnam/Military Service bit before they both look like idiots. Wait. Too late.

Why don't we talk about topics that really matter? You know, like gay marriage and abortion and boy scouts and other things that won't ever affect me in any way.

Cause it's too difficult to even think of bringing up the economy or healthcare or the homeless or our utility prices. THe fact that my wife and I both have to work in San Diego just to support ourselves, let alone any children. The way it's getting as soon as they're born our kids will have to go out and earn a living as well just to keep food on the table. But let us not talk about that. Let's focus on gay marriage and Vietnam instead.

I agree that there are other important issues.

But I also find it important that lies were spread and reiterated about Bush's service since 1999. I don't CARE that he got suspended in whatever year. I don't CARE that he didn't complete his contract with the government.

I do CARE that he lied about it to this country over the past 5 years.

It's kind of like with Clinton. I didn't care that he had an affair - I'm not married to him. I did care that he lied about it. He apologized. Bush lied about it, and lied about it some more. Til he could no longer worm his way out of it.

If he'll lie about something so picayune, because he is not man enough to admit he made a mistake in his youth, what else has he lied about? Why would anyone trust him about anything?

That, to me, is important.

Wouldn't it be great to send him to the next G8 summit, and have everyone know what this man's word is worth?

Starscream · Sep 9, 2004

TheBear said:
I think both of them need to get off this Viet Nam Era mud-slinging, and get on to current issues only. As a Viet Nam Era vet, I am insulted by both parties who are stooping to this level.

I don't know, Kerry was rocked hard the whole month of August by the SBVFT gang, and it has affected his lead in the polls.

Let's see how Bush stands up to the same treatment.

MethodMan · Sep 9, 2004

Starscream said:
I don't know, Kerry was rocked hard the whole month of August by the SBVFT gang, and it has affected his lead in the polls.

Let's see how Bush stands up to the same treatment.

You act as if this is the first time they have attacked him for his service record. Even got a guy who apparently lied under oath and now has conscience never mind him being a Kerry fundraiser.

Starscream · Sep 9, 2004

MethodMan said:
You act as if this is the first time they have attacked him for his service record.

That was then, this is now. Bush and his supporters should have known better than to attack Kerry the way they did.

Funny isn't it? That now that Kerry has been trashed that it is time to "forget about the past"? Too late.

Kerry's accusers hit hard but they didn't pass mustard. Their organization was plagued with links to Bush's campaigns, forged affidavits, changed stories, lies, etc., etc., etc... but considerable damage was still done.

Let's see how the accusations against Bush's service do now. Let's see him sweat it out for a couple of days. This time, I doubt it will take him so long to condemn the accusations.

Even got a guy who apparently lied under oath and now has conscience never mind him being a Kerry fundraiser.

I'm not familiar with that.

MethodMan · Sep 9, 2004

Starscream said:
That was then, this is now. Bush and his supporters should have known better than to attack Kerry the way they did.

Funny isn't it? That now that Kerry has been trashed that it is time to "forget about the past"? Too late.

It was Kerry crying that got them notoriety. If he would have ignored them, they go away.

Kerry's accusers hit hard but they didn't pass mustard. Their organization was plagued with links to Bush's campaigns, forged affidavits, changed stories, lies, etc., etc., etc... but considerable damage was still done.

They haven't waivered. Kerry on the other hand has 5 different stories about his Cambodia comments. Why did he have to keep changing the story?

Let's see how the accusations against Bush's service do now. Let's see him sweat it out for a couple of days. This time, I doubt it will take him so long to condemn the accusations.

Same attack - Didn't work then, won't work now.

I'm not familiar with that.

I am not surprised.

Bush military record lies exposed on 60 minutes?

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