OK, here is what I don't understand about the gay clergy issue

revolutio · Aug 7, 2003

I am behind on the news. What state is this in? Gay marraiges may not be recognized by the state there.

the_malevolent_milk_man · Aug 7, 2003

Alone has a point. If you're going to make a homosexual a bishop you really have no reason to stop them from doing anything else a normal christian can do.

Skywarp · Aug 7, 2003

the_malevolent_milk_man said:
Alone has a point. If you're going to make a homosexual a bishop you really have no reason to stop them from doing anything else a normal christian can do.

I agree. Bring on the gay marriages.

(look, we all know it's just a matter of time)

Nelzador · Aug 8, 2003

sweetkitty said:
Jesus was silent on many sexual sins including pedophilia and rape..should we ordain ministers who engage in these acts simply because Jesus failed to condemn them in the New Testament?

Interesting choice of words. Are you saying Jesus was a failiure i.e. not perfect?

fragmentsofdreams · Aug 8, 2003

I believe the decision whether to bless same-sex unions is left up to the bishop of the diocese. Some do, some don't.

Michael0701 · Aug 8, 2003

Nelzador said:
Interesting choice of words. Are you saying Jesus was a failiure i.e. not perfect?

Kitty has not appointed me as her official spokesperson, but we both know that's not what she meant. Come on now

And a belated thanks to Wols for the followup article. Time and time again it is proved that many an inflamatory article or news report needs to run it's course before the WHOLE truth comes out.

crazyfingers · Aug 8, 2003

sweetkitty said:
Jesus was silent on many sexual sins including pedophilia and rape..should we ordain ministers who engage in these acts simply because Jesus failed to condemn them in the New Testament?
God gave us common sense and the ability to know right from wrong. Ordaining a man who knowingly engages in a sinful way of life is a stumbling block to other Christians and is leading people straight down the path to Hell,IMO

You need to learn to differentiate between actions that have victims and those that do not. Equating homosexuality with pedophilia and rape is completely inappropriate.

KennySe · Aug 8, 2003

Greetings, all. Just popping in to share today's artcle with you.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/08/anglican.meeting/index.html

Here's a clip.

The Archbishop of Canterbury: ""It seems to me rather sad, and rather revealing, that when it comes to sex we suddenly become much less intelligent about our reading of the Bible," Williams told the BBC late last year.

"If the Bible is very clear -- as I think it is -- that a heterosexual indulging in homosexual activity for the sake of variety and gratification is not following the will of God, does that automatically say that that is the only sort of homosexual activity there could ever be?

"My own personal conclusion is that I can see a case for acknowledging faithful same-sex relationships," he added.

Nelzador · Aug 8, 2003

Michael0701 said:
Kitty has not appointed me as her official spokesperson, but we both know that's not what she meant. Come on now

"Jesus failed" - Why didn't he condemn the acts Kitty mentioned? Why didn't he condemn men marrying young girls in that period?

Michael0701 · Aug 8, 2003

No thanks.... I don't debate non-believers. You will have to have some fun with someone else, sorry.

Nelzador · Aug 8, 2003

Michael0701 said:
No thanks.... I don't debate non-believers. You will have to have some fun with someone else, sorry.

Oh, then I suggest you comment in the Christian-only area if you aren't prepared to engage yourself. bye-bye.

kdet · Aug 8, 2003

Nelzador said:
Interesting choice of words. Are you saying Jesus was a failiure i.e. not perfect?

No, that is not what I'm saying..why would you think that?

kdet · Aug 8, 2003

crazyfingers said:
You need to learn to differentiate between actions that have victims and those that do not. Equating homosexuality with pedophilia and rape is completely inappropriate.

No it is not..they are sexual sins.

Dayton · Aug 8, 2003

Pedophilia and rape are much worse than homosexuality, because there is a victim involved. There is no victim in a homosexual relationship, just two people in the privacy of their own home.

Vance · Aug 8, 2003

Dayton, you call yourself a new Christian. One of the things you need to look into is the idea that sin is sin. It is not a sin because we can see a victim or track the specific harm involved. If the Scripture says we are not to do it, then we are not to do it. Period.

There are no "degrees" of sin. Even a sin which we see as inconsequential will lead to destruction if it is done without repentance. This goes for anger, pride, gluttony, etc, etc, etc, so we should not be overly-focused on sexual sins. But sexual sins do exist, and homosexuality is one of them. If a person chooses an ongoing lifestyle which includes such sinful activity, they are doing it unrepentently and this will ultimately lead to an eternity in Hell (to be blunt).

You either accept God's Word as law or you do not.

kdet · Aug 8, 2003

Vance said:
Dayton, you call yourself a new Christian. One of the things you need to look into is the idea that sin is sin. It is not a sin because we can see a victim or track the specific harm involved. If the Scripture says we are not to do it, then we are not to do it. Period.

There are no "degrees" of sin. Even a sin which we see as inconsequential will lead to destruction if it is done without repentance. This goes for anger, pride, gluttony, etc, etc, etc, so we should not be overly-focused on sexual sins. But sexual sins do exist, and homosexuality is one of them. If a person chooses an ongoing lifestyle which includes such sinful activity, they are doing it unrepentently and this will ultimately lead to an eternity in Hell (to be blunt).

You either accept God's Word as law or you do not.

Another excellent post! :clap:

crazyfingers · Aug 8, 2003

sweetkitty said:
No it is not..they are sexual sins.

Why should I believe in sin? It has no meaning outside of religion.

crazyfingers · Aug 8, 2003

Vance said:
You either accept God's Word as law or you do not.

I know of no reason to accept what people claim to be the law of some god.

Vance · Aug 8, 2003

Well, Crazy, you are right. If you don't believe that the Bible is the true word of God, or don't believe there is a God, etc, then you don't have any reason to believe in sin. I will grant you that one hands down.

fragmentsofdreams · Aug 8, 2003

Vance said:
Dayton, you call yourself a new Christian. One of the things you need to look into is the idea that sin is sin. It is not a sin because we can see a victim or track the specific harm involved. If the Scripture says we are not to do it, then we are not to do it. Period.

There are no "degrees" of sin. Even a sin which we see as inconsequential will lead to destruction if it is done without repentance. This goes for anger, pride, gluttony, etc, etc, etc, so we should not be overly-focused on sexual sins. But sexual sins do exist, and homosexuality is one of them. If a person chooses an ongoing lifestyle which includes such sinful activity, they are doing it unrepentently and this will ultimately lead to an eternity in Hell (to be blunt).

You either accept God's Word as law or you do not.

God is not an arbitrary dictator whose decrees are based on nothing more that a whim. Things are a sin because of a reason. By understanding we can better conform ourselves to God's will. Furthermore, if a Biblical prohibition does not seem to fit into our understanding, it is an indication that our understanding of God's reasons or our interpretation of the Bible are flawed.

OK, here is what I don't understand about the gay clergy issue

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