Bush military record lies exposed on 60 minutes?

Starscream

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Just came across this link.

The first memo is a direct order to take "an annual physical examination" – a requirement for all pilots.
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On August 1, 1972, Col. Killian grounded Lt. Bush for failure to perform to U.S. Air Force/Texas Air National Guard standards and for failure to take his annual physical as ordered.
So Bush disobeyed a direct order?

Also, in the link, another Col. Killian memo complains of how he is being pressured from above to give Bush a good review.

BTW, I especially like this part ...

supporters of now-President Bush have been critical of opponent John Kerry's Vietnam record. Now it's the president's turn to answer tough questions about his own service.
Got that right! Time to pay the piper.
 
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BruceWane

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CBS News said:
Another memo refers to a phone call from the lieutenant in which he and his commander "discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November." And that due to other commitments "he may not have time."

Let's hear from some military folks out there........do you "discuss options" with your Commanding Officer? Can you tell your CO that you "may not have time" to report for duty? Try not to laugh............
 
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Starscream

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BruceWane said:
Let's hear from some military folks out there........do you "discuss options" with your Commanding Officer? Can you tell your CO that you "may not have time" to report for duty? Try not to laugh............
Maybe our Guardsmen(women) deployed in Iraq could try this tactic? Hey, it worked for Bush.
 
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eutychus

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MatthewG215 said:
Who cares if George Bush Jr broke his contract with the US Government? The real issue is how far the bullets went into John Kerry.

So true.

Let's keep the main thing the main thing, guys. Kerry's campaign is partially built on his (dis)service in Nam. Bush has never claimed greatness via his exploits or lack thereof in the Air Force. I'm a staunch Republican, and this doesn't even surprise me that Bush was not competent during his miliatary service.

Aside, gotta love how the media refuses to cover any hardcore truths about Kerry's service in its coverage, yet it embraces this on a whim.
 
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TheBear

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I think both of them need to get off this Viet Nam Era mud-slinging, and get on to current issues only. As a Viet Nam Era vet, I am insulted by both parties who are stooping to this level.

(Maybe I'll start a 527 group to put a stop to this political insanity. ;))
 
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PatrickM

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BruceWane said:
Let's hear from some military folks out there........do you "discuss options" with your Commanding Officer? Can you tell your CO that you "may not have time" to report for duty? Try not to laugh............
As an ex-CAANG member, yes, in a Reserve unit, not activated, the situation is entirely different. I went round and round with my CO in the CBPO all the time from proceedures to who would win the Notre Dame game next Saturday! We were even on a first-name basis, "Major Tony" (I can't even remember his last name!), as was everyone else in my unit.

I can only laugh at the presumption you are trying to make.

Unless you've been there, try not to a-s-s-u-m-e things, ok?

As for the "direct order" statement, I issued "direct orders", signed by the base commander all the time. They were pre-printed forms, with variuos boxes checked for the various duties required. To take an annual physical was one of the "forms", it was made out to each pilot in our unit. And many, many times, they did not "comply", and were routinely taken off flight status, no other action was taken. It's not as big a deal as you civies are making it out to be.
 
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pearlz

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I did watch 60 minutes and the part that i didnt see any one comment on is this one....Bush says he didnt tke his physical because he said he had decided not to fly. The papers 60 minutes say that he was SUSPENDED FROM FLYING FOR NOT TAKING HIS PHYSICAL. opps maybe? Naw, that a DIRECT LIE to make himself look better. Of course this is the 1st physical he would have to take that would include a drug and Alcohol test. And last but hardly least, they showed a clip of Bush saying he got into the guard on his own. And Ben Barnes says he is the one that pulled the strings for his daddys "friends".

Once a cheat, always a cheat.
Once a lier, always a lier.
 
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pearlz

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Zoot said:
One of the neatest things in F9/11 was the comparison between Bush's military record as released by the government and Bush's military record as requested and obtained by Moore four years ago.
Yea i remember that. And i sure think its funny how they keep finding all these non-exsistant records.
 
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PatrickM

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pearlz said:
I did watch 60 minutes and the part that i didnt see any one comment on is this one....Bush says he didnt tke his physical because he said he had decided not to fly. The papers 60 minutes say that he was SUSPENDED FROM FLYING FOR NOT TAKING HIS PHYSICAL. opps maybe? Naw, that a DIRECT LIE to make himself look better.
These are the same things. This is getting tiresome. A quick way for a pilot to choose not to fly would be for, you guessed it, not take the annual flight physical, which pilots did all the time.

For various reasons this happened quite often, many of which would have been they're close to getting out, or would not be available for a time to fly (on vacation for weeks during the time they should have had their physical, flying as a commercial pilot out of the country, etc.)

Take it from someone who served in the CAANG during the 70s, in personnel. This was no big thing! I saw it all the time, as the CBPO was the office which processed flight status of pilots. I know all you civies are drooling over some juicy stuff to bash Bush, this ain't it!

I plead for anyone else who's served in the ANG to chime in here!
Of course this is the 1st physical he would have to take that would include a drug and Alcohol test. And last but hardly least, they showed a clip of Bush saying he got into the guard on his own. And Ben Barnes says he is the one that pulled the strings for his daddys "friends".

Once a cheat, always a cheat.
Once a lier, always a lier (sic).
You people don't know what you're talking about. Have you served in the ANG? This garbage about drug testing is hogwash. First of all, everyone, I repeat everyone takes an annual physical. Then there is a special physical for pilots. If he was trying to dodge a drug test, he would have to avoid the regular physical, which is cause for dishonorable discharge. Please stop embarrasing yourselves with fact-less speculation.
 
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pearlz

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PatrickM said:
These are the same things. This is getting tiresome. A quick way for a pilot to choose not to fly would be for, you guessed it, not take the annual flight physical, which pilots did all the time.

For various reasons this happened quite often, many of which would have been they're close to getting out, or would not be available for a time to fly (on vacation for weeks during the time they should have had their physical, flying as a commercial pilot out of the country, etc.)

Take it from someone who served in the CAANG during the 70s, in personnel. This was no big thing! I saw it all the time, as the CBPO was the office which processed flight status of pilots. I know all you civies are drooling over some juicy stuff to bash Bush, this ain't it!

I plead for anyone else who's served in the ANG to chime in here!
You people don't know what you're talking about. Have you served in the ANG? This garbage about drug testing is hogwash. First of all, everyone, I repeat everyone takes an annual physical. Then there is a special physical for pilots. If he was trying to dodge a drug test, he would have to avoid the regular physical, which is cause for dishonorable discharge. Please stop embarrasing yourselves with fact-less speculation.

Your wrong, it becomes a BIG thing when you are president and it turns out you cant tell the truth about anything. Tsk Tsk Tsk
 
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PatrickM

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pearlz said:
And last but hardly least, they showed a clip of Bush saying he got into the guard on his own. And Ben Barnes says he is the one that pulled the strings for his daddys "friends".
And this didn't happen all the time ?? Do you remember the movie-star Dean Martin? His son, using daddy's influence, was assigned to my unit, and became rated as a fighter pilot in RF-4s. He, unfortunately, died when his aircraft flew into a mountain in Riverside County.

This is but one example of celeb's using influence to join the Guard.

At least he didn't flee to Oxford, and then Moscow to avoid any service time (read: WJC).
Once a cheat, always a cheat.
Once a lier, always a lier.
Once naive and uneducated in the facts . . . (by the way, it's liar).
 
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PatrickM

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Zoot said:
Patrick,

Do the records show that he took the normal annual physical?
He would have been dishonorably (or medically) discharged had he missed one. I'm not sure there are any records when the requirement is met, perhaps the medical unit would have something, but we were notified by the medical staff when someone missed one.

Interesting question, though.
 
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