OK, here is what I don't understand about the gay clergy issue

Knight · Aug 6, 2003

Not going to answer my question are you?

stephen1964 · Aug 6, 2003

dragonfly5 said:
It is inconceivable that one could claim to believe the Scripture and then claim that homosexuality is acceptable.

Now, if the intent is to simply abide by the rules of some man made religion, that is different. This ordaining of an openly homosexual bishop in the Episcopal church should not be surprising. This denomination has long ago traded what the Bible says for today's changing standards of conduct.

Be careful of broad statements regarding an entire denomination. It seems to me like a lot of Christians are picking and choosing which parts of scripture they obey by dwelling on this issue. Jesus was silent on the issue of homosexuality but condemned divorce, but most churches don't bar divorced preachers. Likewise, the verse in Leviticus prohibiting homosexuality also includes many rules regarding other customs, foods and behaviors that are ignored by almost all Christian churches today.

ACougar · Aug 6, 2003

Be careful, that kind of dangerous thinking can get you in trouble.

Everyone knows Jesus was a great capitalist and that poverty and socalism were of the Devil.

Skywarp said:
It is inconcievalble that one could claim to believe the Scripture and then claim that monetary wealth is acceptable.

See what I mean? Jesus never mentioned homosexuality but He did say that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to attend Heaven.

In these threads regarding homosexuality, people are constantly asserting that parts of the Bible of being ignored in an attempt to mesh with current popular culture. But I fail to see how mixing western capitalism with Jesus' words is any different. It's the American dream to become wealthy - so everyone just ignores it - but man, if anyone dares to express their sexuality then you folks will sure let them have it.

Skywarp · Aug 6, 2003

stephen1964 said:
Be careful of broad statements regarding an entire denomination. It seems to me like a lot of Christians are picking and choosing which parts of scripture they obey by dwelling on this issue. Jesus was silent on the issue of homosexuality but condemned divorce, but most churches don't bar divorced preachers. Likewise, the verse in Leviticus prohibiting homosexuality also includes many rules regarding other customs, foods and behaviors that are ignored by almost all Christian churches today.

Hello stephen1964.
:wave:

Nice post, btw. It never occured to me to mention divorce.

stephen1964 · Aug 6, 2003

thanks skywarp. To be honest, I am not in favor of the election of a gay bishop; but I hate the way it stirs up more controversy than it should!

Skywarp · Aug 6, 2003

Hello again, stephen1964.
:wave:

stephen1964 said:
thanks skywarp. To be honest, I am not in favor of the election of a gay bishop;

Fair enough.

but I hate the way it stirs up more controversy than it should!

Well said.

kdet · Aug 6, 2003

stephen1964 said:
Be careful of broad statements regarding an entire denomination. It seems to me like a lot of Christians are picking and choosing which parts of scripture they obey by dwelling on this issue. Jesus was silent on the issue of homosexuality but condemned divorce, but most churches don't bar divorced preachers. Likewise, the verse in Leviticus prohibiting homosexuality also includes many rules regarding other customs, foods and behaviors that are ignored by almost all Christian churches today.

Jesus was silent on many sexual sins including pedophilia and rape..should we ordain ministers who engage in these acts simply because Jesus failed to condemn them in the New Testament?
God gave us common sense and the ability to know right from wrong. Ordaining a man who knowingly engages in a sinful way of life is a stumbling block to other Christians and is leading people straight down the path to Hell,IMO

stephen1964 · Aug 6, 2003

what about divorce kitty?

Vance · Aug 6, 2003

I just heard that Robinson was on the 700 Club and stated that, while Romans 1 made it clear that homosexuality was a sin, he said that this was true "of that time, but not for today" [paraphrasing]. When asked if the Bible was God's word, he said it was, but not in every way for us today.

In short, we can pick and choose which of Biblical teachings suit us and which we choose to live by.

kdet · Aug 6, 2003

stephen1964 said:
what about divorce kitty?

What about divorce? I believe what the Bible says about divorce is true.

kdet · Aug 6, 2003

Vance said:
I just heard that Robinson was on the 700 Club and stated that, while Romans 1 made it clear that homosexuality was a sin, he said that this was true "of that time, but not for today" [paraphrasing]. When asked if the Bible was God's word, he said it was, but not in every way for us today.

In short, we can pick and choose which of Biblical teachings suit us and which we choose to live by.

Robinson is a man..he isn't infallible he can make mistakes. We cannot pick and choose..well we can but we will end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

cenimo · Aug 6, 2003

Vance

Excellent point. The one thing we've never heard a hint of is repentance, Robinsoin and his supporters are trying to convince the "unwashed masses" that his chosen lifestyle should be OK.
His appointment is nothing other than a victory for the devil, albeit a temporary one...The Book tells us how it all turns out...

SoldierofChrist · Aug 6, 2003

The Anglican/Episcopal church is going down. I don't know how they can expect the parishioners to embrace a man continually practicing sin without even so much as acknowledging that what he's doing is wrong. It doesn't surprise me though.

Clearly this man does not take seriously what the Bible claims, and from that statement, he doesn't seem like he cares either. So long as what he's doing makes him feel all warm and toasty inside. "Forget truth, this is great!"

BarbB · Aug 6, 2003

I was saved by and confirmed an Episcopalian in September, 2001 (right after 9/11 of all things) and there are many, many fundamental Bible-believing spirit-filled Episcopal churches whose dioceses voted against Robinson's confirmation. Unfortunately, the culture of today has clouded the vision of many in the church hierarchy, and for whatever reason they do not believe that the Bible is for always (just like I didn't before being saved). Despite many prayers from millions of people, the confirmation happened. When we prayed for God to work his will on the matter, perhaps He did and this is the "falling away" spoken of in the last days. I'm keeping an open mind on the separation issue. Hopefully, God's will shall be worked there also!

stephen1964 · Aug 6, 2003

sweetkitty said:
What about divorce? I believe what the Bible says about divorce is true.

Mark 10:11-12
And He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

stephen1964 · Aug 6, 2003

So should we ban all ministers and priests who are divorced?

Michael0701 · Aug 6, 2003

newlamb said:
I was saved by and confirmed an Episcopalian in September, 2001 (right after 9/11 of all things) and there are many, many fundamental Bible-believing spirit-filled Episcopal churches whose dioceses voted against Robinson's confirmation. Unfortunately, the culture of today has clouded the vision of many in the church hierarchy, and for whatever reason they do not believe that the Bible is for always (just like I didn't before being saved). Despite many prayers from millions of people, the confirmation happened. When we prayed for God to work his will on the matter, perhaps He did and this is the "falling away" spoken of in the last days. I'm keeping an open mind on the separation issue. Hopefully, God's will shall be worked there also!

My heart and prayers go out to the believers who reject this action that the church is undertaking. But I stop and ask myself where was the body of the church when this man was ordained a priest? Where was the body when women were ordained (I know, a whole different subject, but related in my context). What I see, as someone who is outside of the church, is most definitely a falling away from the Bible. They (church leaders) have openly chosen a path leading their followers away from the Word, instead leading them by the word of man. Very sad indeed not only for the Episcopalian church, but for any church who does the same and Christianity as a whole.

BarbB · Aug 6, 2003

Michael0701 said:
My heart and prayers go out to the believers who reject this action that the church is undertaking. But I stop and ask myself where was the body of the church when this man was ordained a priest? Where was the body when women were ordained (I know, a whole different subject, but related in my context). What I see, as someone who is outside of the church, is most definitely a falling away from the Bible. They (church leaders) have openly chosen a path leading their followers away from the Word, instead leading them by the word of man. Very sad indeed not only for the Episcopalian church, but for any church who does the same and Christianity as a whole.

Michael0701 - I totally agree with you and think that this is a falling away as was prophesied. The greater Methodist church, most Presbyterians, and other mainstream denominations have been very lax in their biblical interpretation. I think that this is one reason that membership has fallen off so drastically in the last few decades. So was I lax. But my eyes have been opened and there are churches within even these denominations which do interpret strictly. (By the way, I agree with you about ordination of women!) There are many of us who choose our churches by the Spirit and the teaching. There's where I place my hope and faith. Thanks for the kind reply - yours in Christ!

Apologist · Aug 7, 2003

Skywarp said:
I'm confused in general about the interest of businessmen and CEO's to be involved in Christianity at all! Jesus himself said that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to attend heaven.

Another example of a text quoted out of text to form a pretext.

There is nothing wrong with having riches. Jesus' point was that it was wrong for riches to have you!

Read the whole verse, get the context and then you will understand.

By the way Solomon was possibly the richest man in history and God gave him all of those riches.

alonesoldier · Aug 7, 2003

Okay, riddle me this. This church, and we all know which one, which has accepted this homosexual bishop, had a leader in the Church on the Factor tonight, trying to dance around why they don't marry Gays at this particular church. If their is nothing wrong with homosexuality, and nothing wrong with appointing a homosexual bishop, then why would they be able to find a biblical reason for not allowing gay marriage?

OK, here is what I don't understand about the gay clergy issue

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