Christian non-married couples living together...

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Hello. My apologies if this isn't the best forum for this (there's so many in here).

I know a couple that are Christians that are living together, and are not married. They say that they are not living in sin because they're not 'sleeping' together. In my mind, it's still living in sin. Not everyone knows that they're not sleeping together, so they could still be labeled hypocrites and such.

Now I really need your help. Can you give me any scriptural reference to support that it is still not right? Or perhaps give me some more insight to what you think? Your help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank You,
Cory
 

Philip

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y3kbender said:
I know a couple that are Christians that are living together, and are not married. They say that they are not living in sin because they're not 'sleeping' together. In my mind, it's still living in sin. Not everyone knows that they're not sleeping together, so they could still be labeled hypocrites and such.

On what basis does anyone presume that they would be sleeping together?
 
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> On what basis does anyone presume that they would be sleeping together?

Well, doesn't it seem a little odd for Christians to be placing themselves in that situation where such presumptions could be made in the first place? The only way it'd be known for certain is if they lived with their parents separately. I've posted this on other forums, and so far only one person believes it to be wrong. Kinda surprising. :/

Food for thought: Dr. Dobson did a study and found out that 80% of couples that live together before marriage divorce.
 
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Philip

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y3kbender said:
Well, doesn't it seem a little odd for Christians to be placing themselves in that situation where such presumptions could be made in the first place?

No, it is not odd. What I consider odd is that someone would presume that a Christian is willfully sinning.

Food for thought: Dr. Dobson did a study and found out that 80% of couples that live together before marriage divorce.

Good for him. Did he offer any evidence of cause-effect, or just constant-connection?
 
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They're sleeping in the same bed??!!??!!

I can see why people would think they're being intimate. I'm not sure I would believe them either.

I could see how a case could be made if they had separate rooms. I don't agree with it but I could see how you could argue it.

These two must have incredible will power to intentionally place themselves in a situation of very increased temptation and yet resist. Pardon me if I find this a little hard to believe.

As to the Dobson article. I believe that Dr. Dobson is merely looking at the divorce statistics and noticed that 80% of the people who divorce lived together prior to their marriage. I don't know any more about this particular study or what the sample size was but 80% is a significant figure.
 
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This whole situation makes me very uncomfortable. because I have been around evangelical culture for quite a while and am inclined to read between the lines here.
First of all, they probably are sleeping together in my opinion. However, there is a bigger issue I believe at stake.
My question would be where is their pastor?? And if they have no relationship with a pastor which can instruct on these matters, then the problem is probably one of general immaturity and lack of sanctification.
So the issue of sleeping together, again in my opinion becomes a side issue. I also would ask is your/their church willing to help them in a practical way to find alternate housing if they decide to move out?
The biblical pattern as I understand it according to matthew 18 if someone trangresses against you is to go to them. if they fail to hear you then go with two or three witnesses. if they still fail to hear then take it to the church foir church discipline.
The problem with this is they have not trangressed against you so it is quite possible that this scripture does not apply to you in this particular situation.
Another passage that comes to mind is this one. Galatians 6:1 that says if someone is overtaken in a fault those who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of meekness.
One final word of exhortation here. I would not assume the motivation is lust for your friends to do such a thing. For many in our modern culture it is a practical financial matter or merely a companionship issue. Of course physical intimacy is possibly involved. But consider how weak the arguement sounds of appealing to someone misjuding them as compared to basic practical needs they may have.

Let me put it this way. If you drink soda pop or eat any junk food at all, how would you respond to the arguement that you give up eating anything that may tempt anyone to look at you as a glutton whther you truelly are or not? Or how about how you spend your money? would someone possibly consider you a bad steward by assuming certian things by how you spend? How far are you willing to altar your lifestyle so as to avoid any misunderstandings? Perhaps the way you dress or the music you listen to? if older people hear you listening to christian rock for example and assume sinful things about you will you reduce yourself to just hymns?
I am not saying that your arguement is completely false. However consider that you are asking them to make a major lifestyle change based on someone else's assumptions or discomfort. My opinion that is not an arguement you will win.
Bottomline. Unless you are willing to get involved to the point of giving them a place to stay and discipling them weekly. Then best to mind your business and leave it to the pastor to take care of.
 
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y3kbender said:
Hello. My apologies if this isn't the best forum for this (there's so many in here).

I know a couple that are Christians that are living together, and are not married. They say that they are not living in sin because they're not 'sleeping' together. In my mind, it's still living in sin. Not everyone knows that they're not sleeping together, so they could still be labeled hypocrites and such.

Now I really need your help. Can you give me any scriptural reference to support that it is still not right? Or perhaps give me some more insight to what you think? Your help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank You,
Cory

Cory, I rarely do this because I dislike it when others do it but there is a verse that says something like: Avoid all appearances of evil.

I looked for the right verse and the closest I could find was 1 Thess 5:22:

1 Thessalonians 5:22
Avoid every kind of evil.

I don't think that's the one I was thinking of but someone else may know which verse I'm referring to.

God bless
 
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Vylo said:
I fail to see the problem with 2 people in love expressing it in a physical manner. It is perfectly natural and can contribute to a happy relationship.

The "problem" is that sexual relations outside of the bonds of the sacrament of marriage, i.e., fornication, are sinful.

As to it being "perfectly natural," that's part of the problem. What is "perfectly natural" to fallen man IS sinful.

I ask this not to offend but because your statement seems quite humanistic, are you a Christian? :scratch:

God bless
 
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Does marriage start at the I do? or before? There is Biblical support for the idea that sex is the definition of marriage, and that if in Lev. someone slept with a virgin he owed the father of the woman a set amount of silver, and they were married. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
Does the Church bless a union of two people, or does it create that union?
Jeff the Finn
 
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jeffthefinn said:
Does marriage start at the I do? or before? There is Biblical support for the idea that sex is the definition of marriage, and that if in Lev. someone slept with a virgin he owed the father of the woman a set amont of silver, and they were married.
Does the Church bless a union of two people, or does it create that union?
Jeff the Finn

I don't believe the Bible endorses the idea that "sex is the definition of marriage." If that were the case it would make no sense to admonish people for fornication. I think it's the exclusivity of a recognized, exclusive, publically professed union of a man and a woman, recognized and bound by the church, and pronounced to be in accordance with the Word of God that makes the sacrament distinct from just a physical joining of a man and a woman.

God bless
 
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jeffthefinn said:
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
Does the Church bless a union of two people, or does it create that union?
Jeff the Finn

This verse is an example of the responsibility a man has for joining in the physical act that should be confined to marriage. Notice the passage says that "she shall be his wife" not that "by virtue of their physical union they are husband and wife."
 
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Vylo said:
No reformasist I am atheist. To me "sins" are nothing but a construction of man used to control others actions. There is nothing harmful with sex outside of marriage, however you were correct in showing that there is an increased chance of divorce if they lived together outside of marriage.

I see. Well, General Theology is a Christians only forum. Please do not post in this forum again.

God bless
 
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Vylo said:
No reformasist I am atheist. To me "sins" are nothing but a construction of man used to control others actions. There is nothing harmful with sex outside of marriage, however you were correct in showing that there is an increased chance of divorce if they lived together outside of marriage.

That's how you define sin? I thought that was the deifinition of manipulation!

Sex outside of marriage is harmful. It doesn't take a genius to see that STD's are epidemic, that children living with only one parent or neither parent is on the rise, that the more sexual partners a woman has the more likely she is to develop cancers of the reproductive system. If none of that seems harmful to you, I can't imagine how you define "harmful."
 
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Sex outside of marriage is harmful. It doesn't take a genius to see that STD's are epidemic, that children living with only one parent or neither parent is on the rise, that the more sexual partners a woman has the more likely she is to develop cancers of the reproductive system. If none of that seems harmful to you, I can't imagine how you define "harmful."

I'd like to add one more to this list; that of emotional and/or psychological pain when the relationship fails--especially on the woman's side.
 
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