The second coming

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Big Mouth Nana

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nephilimiyr said:
I haven't seen your posts before about Babylon and I might surprise you by saying that I believe you are right in part. I believe "mystery, Babylon the Great" is America! However that's in Rev. 17, Rev. 16 only says "great Babylon" so I tend to believe they're two different places.
Well, you could be right, but the verse in Rev 16:19 calling it the great city, gives Rev 18:5 as a companion verse next to it. I believe that Rev 16, 17 & 18 are all talking about the same Babylon. I know that there are alot of people who think that the harlot in Rev 17 is [EDIT], but I don't believe that is entirely true. Part maybe, but not all.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Null-Geodesic said:
You might bamboozle some folks on here with this nonsense but not me. Please tell me the mechanism for the separation? I dare you.
Please Null-Geodesic, Big Mouth Nana maybe saying something you believe is false but I asure you she is not doing it to "bamboozle" anyone. Big Mouth Nana has shown me to be more than honest with her feelings and beliefs and quit sincere. If you disagree with her please stick to the points instead of resorting to insulting her inteligence and mine for that matter. If you wish to show that she doesn't know what she is talking about concerning geology I am totally capable of understanding your major objections of what she says without accuseing her of trickery.

When you make a post like that all it does is make you look bad so lets keep this civil. :)
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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nephilimiyr said:
Please Null-Geodesic, Big Mouth Nana maybe saying something you believe is false but I asure you she is not doing it to "bamboozle" anyone. Big Mouth Nana has shown me to be more than honest with her feelings and beliefs and quit sincere. If you disagree with her please stick to the points instead of resorting to insulting her inteligence and mine for that matter. If you wish to show that she doesn't know what she is talking about concerning geology I am totally capable of understanding your major objections of what she says without accuseing her of trickery.

Lets keep this civil. :)
Thanks brother. The thing is, he never asked me about anything pertaining to geology, lol. I looked at his profile, and he believes in thiestic evolution, what the heck that is, I haven't a clue. Just the word evolution alone repells me.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Big Mouth Nana said:
Thanks brother. The thing is, he never asked me about anything pertaining to geology, lol. I looked at his profile, and he believes in thiestic evolution, what the heck that is, I haven't a clue. Just the word evolution alone repells me.
In short thiestic evolution is the belief that God created everything, the heavens and the earth, through evolutionary processes. It is not an atheistic belief but they believe God used his creative powers to start the process and let nature and his laws take their course.

I believe in the gap theory in which I don't believe in a young earth or heavens being created 6,000 years ago but that God created all things in the distant past but that at a certain point in history God made the earth desolate and reformed it 6,000 years ago. This gap theory is based on the interpretation of how the original Hebrew was supposed to be read.
 
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Null-Geodesic

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Big Mouth Nana said:
Thanks brother. The thing is, he never asked me about anything pertaining to geology, lol. I looked at his profile, and he believes in thiestic evolution, what the heck that is, I haven't a clue. Just the word evolution alone repells me.
Well that is probably a lie. I think you should know what theistic means and though you probably don't really understand evolution you at least know the concept. Put the two together and voila. By the way, since the 3 largest Christian denominations on the Earth subscribe to theistic evolution you are in a minority.

All I saw you do was make some appeal from a geological perspective that made no geological sense. Hence I questioned that. Then you claimed to have studied geology. I don't like being lied to and that is what seems to have been going on.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Null-Geodesic said:
Well that is probably a lie. I think you should know what theistic means and though you probably don't really understand evolution you at least know the concept. Put the two together and voila. By the way, since the 3 largest Christian denominations on the Earth subscribe to theistic evolution you are in a minority.

All I saw you do was make some appeal from a geological perspective that made no geological sense. Hence I questioned that. Then you claimed to have studied geology. I don't like being lied to and that is what seems to have been going on.
So, you believe that we came from another species, and it was God ordained????? Oh, which are the 3 largest Christian denominations? My post made perfect sense to me. Sorry you didn't understand it.
 
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Well, you could be right, but the verse in Rev 16:19 calling it the great city, gives Rev 18:5 as a companion verse next to it. I believe that Rev 16, 17 & 18 are all talking about the same Babylon. I know that there are alot of people who think that the harlot in Rev 17 is [EDIT], but I don't believe that is entirely true. Part maybe, but not all.

Hi Nana,
The only reason I have to disagree with you on your view, is for one thing a temple is being measured, but also this is a "holy city"(or it could be symbolically the inner sanctuary of the temple, don't know), and the only holy city that was considered Holy by God is Jerusalem (there are those who think it is the vatican in rome, the vatican was never considered holy by God Himself:confused: ). I am not saying you are wrong, just giving you my view sister.:wave:
The beast of the earth, the great city, harlot, are really all the same thing I believe.

reve 11:Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot [for] forty-two months.

Who are the ones who killed the apostles and prophets both?

reve 18:19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.' 20 "Rejoice over her, O heaven, and [you] holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!"
 
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Null-Geodesic

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Roman Catholic about 55% of Christianity.
Orthodox Church about 15% of Christianity.
Anglican Church about 10% of Christianity.

Evolution is an observed fact. The theory of evolution is the scientific explanation of this.

Theistic evolution is the idea that the above is correct but that the Lord used this as his tool. Hence I usually get ticked off when fundamentists equate evolution with atheism.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Null-Geodesic said:
Roman Catholic about 55% of Christianity.
Orthodox Church about 15% of Christianity.
Anglican Church about 10% of Christianity.

Evolution is an observed fact. The theory of evolution is the scientific explanation of this.

Theistic evolution is the idea that the above is correct but that the Lord used this as his tool. Hence I usually get ticked off when fundamentists equate evolution with atheism.
I didn't think that you were an athiest, just from the word thiestic. I can see how people might take that word to belonging to athieism. I have talked to another person on another site who believes in this thiestic evolution also. She believed in God. Is Darwinism figured into your belief anywhere also? I would have to disagree of course that evolution is fact. You just said that the "theroy" of evolution is the scientific explaination of this.That doesn't make it a fact if it is a theroy.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Big Mouth Nana said:
Well, you could be right, but the verse in Rev 16:19 calling it the great city, gives Rev 18:5 as a companion verse next to it. I believe that Rev 16, 17 & 18 are all talking about the same Babylon. I know that there are alot of people who think that the harlot in Rev 17 is [EDIT], but I don't believe that is entirely true. Part maybe, but not all.
Ok but we still have a difference. Verse 19 says that "the cities of the nations fell" this tells me that when this great Babylon falls so will other cities around the world. Now in Rev 18 we are told that when Babylon the great falls the kings of the earths well as the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her demise.

In Rev. 16 we see a whole worldwide catastrophy but in Rev. 18 we see only a local catastrophy concerning Babylon the great and that's why I view these as separate places and events.

Let me ask you, since in Rev. 16 the idea is of a worldwide catastrophy why would anyone around the world weep over America when the same things are happening to them?
 
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Null-Geodesic

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Big Mouth Nana said:
I didn't think that you were an athiest, just from the word thiestic. I can see how people might take that word to belonging to athieism. I have talked to another person on another site who believes in this thiestic evolution also. She believed in God. Is Darwinism figured into your belief anywhere also? I would have to disagree of course that evolution is fact. You just said that the "theroy" of evolution is the scientific explaination of this.That doesn't make it a fact if it is a theroy.
No evolution is an observed fact. You cannot deny this it is basic biology. Just like gravity is an observed fact.

But the explanation for the facts are the theories. The difference between fact and theory and exactly what theory means in a scientific sense is one of the biggest stumbling blocks between lay people arguing science and professionals.

Anyway, this is probably the wrong forum for this.
 
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Roman Catholic about 55% of Christianity.
Orthodox Church about 15% of Christianity.
Anglican Church about 10% of Christianity.

Evolution is an observed fact. The theory of evolution is the scientific explanation of this.

Theistic evolution is the idea that the above is correct but that the Lord used this as his tool. Hence I usually get ticked off when fundamentists equate evolution with atheism.
I never really studied evolution or science, but I am sure the bible gives an answer, as after all it is God's Book.;)

What I can't understand is why did God say "created the earth" instead "the world"? Both earth and world are used often in the bible and I always read it in the Spirit at all times. This is what makes the bible even more devinely written to me. Is earth and world being used just "poetically" or symbolizing something else we are not seeing?

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

psalm 24:24:1 A Psalm of David. The earth [is] the LORD's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein.

psalm 96:12 Let the field be joyful, and all that [is] in it. Then all the trees of the woods will rejoice before the LORD. 13 For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth. He shall judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with His truth.

Jeremiah 51:14 The LORD of hosts has sworn by Himself: "Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts, And they shall lift up a shout against you." 15 He has made the earth by His power; He has established the world by His wisdom, And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.

romans 10:18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world." 19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by [those who are] not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation."
 
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@@Paul@@

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Null-Geodesic said:
No evolution is an observed fact. You cannot deny this it is basic biology.
Just to clarify:
Micro-Evolution is an observed fact...

Macro-Evolution is an unproven myth...
(Gen 1:11 KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
(Gen 1:12 KJV) And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
(Gen 1:21 KJV) And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
(Gen 1:24 KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
(Gen 1:25 KJV) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​
 
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Null-Geodesic

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In Christ Forever said:
I never really studied evolution or science, but I am sure the bible gives an answer, as after all it is God's Book.
As I said earlier this is not the forum for this. But I will say that the Bible does not have answers for everything since it is not a science text for instance. As a professional scientist I have never yet opened Scripture to solve a problem and I'll wager never will.
 
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Null-Geodesic

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@@Paul@@ said:
Just to clarify:
Micro-Evolution is an observed fact...

Macro-Evolution is an unproven myth...
This shows a lack of knowldege that is usually bandied around by anti-evolutionists. Macroevolution and microevolution are not even scientific terms. They are invented terms by Creationists to differentiate between small scale change and speciation. Professional biologists do not differentiate these because the mechanism is the same. Lots of micro = macro.

By the way both are observed, both in the fossil record and in the present. I don't want to derail the thread, we have two boards on CF for this Creation/Evolution debate, one open to all and another just for Christians.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Null-Geodesic said:
No evolution is an observed fact. You cannot deny this it is basic biology. Just like gravity is an observed fact.

But the explanation for the facts are the theories. The difference between fact and theory and exactly what theory means in a scientific sense is one of the biggest stumbling blocks between lay people arguing science and professionals.

Anyway, this is probably the wrong forum for this.
There's no doubt that people who believe in evolution want "theory" dropped from the tittle of evolution, that being the theory of evolution, but some of us aren't convinced and see it as a strugle to explain what we see in geologic evidence but that is neither here or there concerning this thread or forum. I wish we could just drop this topic from the thread we are in.
 
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As I said earlier this is not the forum for this. But I will say that the Bible does not have answers for everything since it is not a science text for instance. As a professional scientist I have never yet opened Scripture to solve a problem and I'll wager never will.
You are probably right. The bible has absolutely nothing to do with "evolution". It does have to do with God dwelling with His People though, and I am a witness to that personally, because He came to me.
And those who read it in the Spirit will basically know what God's Book is really saying.
But enough of this as you are right, this isn't the place.

1 corin 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know [them,] because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is [rightly] judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
 
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@@Paul@@

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Null-Geodesic said:
This shows a lack of knowldege that is usually bandied around by anti-evolutionists. Macroevolution and microevolution are not even scientific terms. They are invented terms by Creationists to differentiate between small scale change and speciation. Professional biologists do not differentiate these because the mechanism is the same. Lots of micro = macro.

By the way both are observed, both in the fossil record and in the present. I don't want to derail the thread, we have two boards on CF for this Creation/Evolution debate, one open to all and another just for Christians.
You did de-rail it when you said it was a proven fact... when it's just an opinion based on whatever fact man can find....

Feel free to collect 250,000...
http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp

:)
 
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Null-Geodesic

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@@Paul@@ said:
You did de-rail it when you said it was a proven fact... when it's just an opinion based on whatever fact man can find....

Feel free to collect 250,000...
http://www.drdino.com/Ministry/250k/index.jsp

:)
It is observed. That is a fact. The explanation for the fact is the theory. Theories are never proven, ever. This is a common layman misunderstanding of science.

Evolution can be define as the change of the frequency of alleles over time in a population. This is an observed fact and even the Creationist groups accept this.

Please don't insult mine or anyones intelligence with Kent Hovinds fraudulent offer. read that offer and you have to prove atheism. That is a dishonest tactic of his. Anyway he needs the money from his latest defrauding the IRS trouble he is in.

Sorry for derailing. Over and out.
 
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