U.N. -- Good or Bad?

In your view, what do you think about the U.N. from a Christian perspective? I am against it for the following reason.

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Genesis 11:1-9

"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

They said to each other, 'Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly.' They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth.'

But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The Lord said, 'If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.'

So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel -- because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

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I would like your views on the U.N. from a christian perspective. Should we support this organization? If so, why? Are the set times being changed with this organization? Is it against God's Will, as expressed in Genesis???

Currently, of all the 193 nations in the world, only TWO are not members of the U.N. --- Vatican City and Tiawan. If these two join, will this hold any significance to Genesis??

Are you saying, that because God confounded language and speech back then for the reasons stated, that God is opposed to a unified government now?
That seemed more, to me, to be introducing factors which would limit the advancement of technology more than anything else.


And it does not take a unified government to reach to the heavens. The U.S. all by itself has done, and does that. Next stop, Mars.

God's government is a unified one, why should not ours be? Wouldn't a unified government put an end to most, if not all, wars? Wouldn't the earth's resources be better utilized by a central distribution system? Couldn't we feed more of the hungry by being unified in our efforts and goals?

Do you have any other passages that lead you to think the U.N. is a bad idea? Or that it is unChristian? Capitalism is not Christian either, but most do not see it that way.

Duane Morse,

Thanks for your reply.

The fact that the U.N. does not recognize the God of the Bible negates the necessity for me to consult scripture any futher in regards to determining if it is good or bad. Does it not?

And, I do not believe God was worried about the citizens of Babel PHYSICALLY reaching Heaven with tar and bricks, do you?

Is it worth having a unified government, if God is out of the picture? Sounds like babel.

"... end to most, if not all, wars?" Only after it killed those who disagreed.

Thanks for your response, I see where you stand and will not try to change your mind.

The U.N. is an impotent body which was doomed to failure from the start because it was founded on secular humanist utopian ideals which are patently false and utterly foolish in the sight of God.

"The fact that the U.N. does not recognize the God of the Bible negates the necessity for me to consult scripture any futher in regards to determining if it is good or bad. Does it not?"

Oh, don't get me wrong. I agree that a government that does not include God as it's head is a bad thing and is doomed to fail. I am not hot on the U.N., even though what I just wrote may lead you to think otherwise.

""... end to most, if not all, wars?" Only after it killed those who disagreed."

Oh, just like Bush is doing now with his "war on terror"? "You are either for us or against us", is how he terms it, right? I see more violence and terror brought about by the U.S. in the interest of its "national security" these days than any other country, or the U.N. for that matter. Has the U.N. started any wars lately?

Do you think that the God of the Bible is a part of the U.S. government any more than Allah? I don't. Separation of church and state, remember? God and government can not mix in this country, unless it is Bush saying that God told him to do these things, which he has said.

This country may have started out as basically a Christian nation, but from what I have seen in the past 45 years or so, and from the history of this country from the very beginning starting with the native Americans, leads me to think it has been getting further and further away from God each day.

Patmosman_sga said:

The U.N. is an impotent body which was doomed to failure from the start because it was founded on secular humanist utopian ideals which are patently false and utterly foolish in the sight of God.

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i would agree that it is foolish in the eyes of God, but, in regards to doomed to failure, do you mean in the eyes of God or the eyes of secular humanist utopianists?? Or both??

=Duane Morse

Oh, just like Bush is doing now with his "war on terror"? "You are either for us or against us", is how he terms it, right? I see more violence and terror brought about by the U.S. in the interest of its "national security" these days than any other country, or the U.N. for that matter. Has the U.N. started any wars lately?

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From what you have described with America (but a small part of the world) and the violence and terror that it has wrought, do you not see the potential for the U.N. if it were to have similar leadership??

Or, from the other side of the coin, if the U.N. will not engage itself against a strong power and force it to submit, yet resides to focus solely on the weak (Korea, Iraq -- 1st Gulf War, economic sanctions) to submit, then does not this hypocracy (or weakness) pose a threat to many peoples throughout the world??

I mean if the strong use the U.N. like a prostitute, then ........

"From what you have described with America (but a small part of the world) and the violence and terror that it has wrought, do you not see the potential for the U.N. if it were to have similar leadership??"

How is the leadership of the U.N. any different than the leadership of the U.S.? They are all men hungry for power and domination, as far as I am concerned.
I do not see any leadership that follows the teachings of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.
Do you?

That is why we so fervently look for the return of the Lord, and His rule, isn't it?

"if the U.N. will not engage itself against a strong power and force it to submit"

But isn't the U.N. now trying to put together it's own military engine to do just that?

"yet resides to focus solely on the weak (Korea, Iraq -- 1st Gulf War, economic sanctions) to submit, then does not this hypocracy (or weakness) pose a threat to many peoples throughout the world??
I mean if the strong use the U.N. like a prostitute, then ........ "

The strong run the U.N., the strongest being the United States, because the main military might in the U.N. comes from the U.S., so the U.S. has a kind of strangle hold on the U.N.
So the U.S. can get away with things like saying that U.S. citizens can not be tried in a U.N. court of law.

And it does pose a threat to many in the world, from many different fronts. The good but weak are suppressed by the evil but strong.

Duane Morse said:

" Oh, just like Bush is doing now with his "war on terror"? "You are either for us or against us", is how he terms it, right? I see more violence and terror brought about by the U.S. in the interest of its "national security" these days than any other country, or the U.N. for that matter. Has the U.N. started any wars lately?

Do you think that the God of the Bible is a part of the U.S. government any more than Allah? I don't. Separation of church and state, remember? God and government can not mix in this country, unless it is Bush saying that God told him to do these things, which he has said.

This country may have started out as basically a Christian nation, but from what I have seen in the past 45 years or so, and from the history of this country from the very beginning starting with the native Americans, leads me to think it has been getting further and further away from God each day.

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Well now you've gone done it. When will people get it straight. There is no seperation of church and state in this great land. Congress shall make no law respecting religion (Christian or otherwise) nor prohibit the FREE exercise thereof----- etc. It is not written that Congress must not allow the practice of religion (Christian or otherwise) in the public arena. Please stop this lie about seperation. What the courts have done is force feed us a humanistic, athistic religion that has served to destroy our youth. Let's own up to it. The children of this land have been done a great disservice sence to removal of God's Word from the class room.

If the fathers (not necessarly the founding fathers) of this nation had been Christian from the heart and lived accordingly and not been motivated by greed and lust for power then most of our history would have been just short of heavenly tales.

Palatka44, I do know how it is worded, and how it has been used. There is a separation, whether intended or not. Like you said
What the courts have done is force feed us a humanistic, athistic religion that has served to destroy our youth.
The children of this land have been done a great disservice sence to removal of God's Word from the class room.


This country is based, now, on greed and power.
These days I am really ashamed to be an American.

See you tomorrow.

The UN has proven itself to be of little importance to the world; it was against the war with Iraq, but the USA went ahead and bombed them anyway. The UN was supposed to NOT let that happen.
There is no stronghold there.
The USA has proven itself to be the superpower of the world.

Now, if you were to ask what do you think of the USA from a christian point of view, I would say that on one hand;

We are represented by a christian president who prays, quotes scripture and urges us to be kind and love our neighbors,

Yet on the other, roots out the evildoers of the world and makes an example of them to the world saying:
think twice about attacking America, because we are #1.

Its comforting but frightening in the same sense.

Duane Morse said:

How is the leadership of the U.N. any different than the leadership of the U.S.? They are all men hungry for power and domination, as far as I am concerned.

I do not see any leadership that follows the teachings of Jesus, or the God of the Bible.
Do you?

That is why we so fervently look for the return of the Lord, and His rule, isn't it?

But isn't the U.N. now trying to put together it's own military engine to do just that?

The strong run the U.N., the strongest being the United States, because the main military might in the U.N. comes from the U.S., so the U.S. has a kind of strangle hold on the U.N.
So the U.S. can get away with things like saying that U.S. citizens can not be tried in a U.N. court of law.

And it does pose a threat to many in the world, from many different fronts. The good but weak are suppressed by the evil but strong.

Click to expand...

From your above statements, I would tend to think that you would think that the unification of countires, via the U.N., is a bad thing..... Because mankind can not accomplish its utopia.

Is it possible that maybe what is happening in the U.N. today is the same that happened in Babel centuries ago? That maybe, in Babel, a small to medium-sized group led the others astray? Imposed their will on all?? And that God knew it was best for a seperation to occur for the best??

Look at it from a country's level. Look at what Sadaam's tribe did to control the power of Iraq. Could not the same happen via the U.N.???

God's ways are not man's ways. What may SEEM right to us may not be what is best, spiritually and worldly.

CK Blue said:

The UN has proven itself to be of little importance to the world; it was against the war with Iraq, but the USA went ahead and bombed them anyway. The UN was supposed to NOT let that happen.
There is no stronghold there.
The USA has proven itself to be the superpower of the world.

Now, if you were to ask what do you think of the USA from a christian point of view, I would say that on one hand;

We are represented by a christian president who prays, quotes scripture and urges us to be kind and love our neighbors,

Yet on the other, roots out the evildoers of the world and makes an example of them to the world saying:
think twice about attacking America, because we are #1.

Its comforting but frightening in the same sense.

Click to expand...

So, I believe you see the U.N. as bad for the world???

cbk, no I don't see the UN as either bad or good, but unimportant.
They have failed at what they set out to do. They are no longer a key player in the world, and if this posters thoughts are on a particular part of prophecy being fufilled; well then I would not see the UN being a stronghold in it.

CK Blue said:

cbk, no I don't see the UN as either bad or good, but unimportant.
They have failed at what they set out to do. They are no longer a key player in the world, and if this posters thoughts are on a particular part of prophecy being fufilled; well then I would not see the UN being a stronghold in it.

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Your point is taken.

Prostitutes are unimportant too, from a stonghold point of view.

Duane Morse said:

Palatka44, I do know how it is worded, and how it has been used. There is a separation, whether intended or not. Like you said

This country is based, now, on greed and power.
These days I am really ashamed to be an American.

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Duane I now refer you to the following article. Please no that ignorance breeds apathy (or crime or something like that ).

First Amendment Ignorance
Cal Thomas
Syndicated Columnist


What do you know about the First Amendment? That it protects freedom of religion and speech? What else? That it protects freedom of the press and the right of the people to peacefully demonstrate when they object to something their government is doing, or trying to do?

If you know all of these things about the First Amendment, you are more knowledgeable than most of your fellow citizens.

According to an annual poll conducted by the First Amendment Center and American Journalism Review (AJR), in conjunction with the Center for Survey Research and Analysis at the University of Connecticut, just 14 percent know that freedom of the press is guaranteed by the Constitution, 18 percent are aware that freedom of religion is protected, 10 percent know they have a constitutional right to peaceably assemble and a minuscule 2 percent think they can petition their government to redress grievances.


Perhaps this ignorance is what accounts for the shockingly high number of people (41 percent according to the poll) who"strongly agree" that the First Amendment "goes too far in the rights it guarantees." Eight percent "mildly agree" with that statement. These numbers, already high when the first poll was taken in 1997, have been trending upward over the last five years.

More than 40 percent of respondents in this year's poll said that newspapers should not be allowed to freely criticize the U.S. military's strategy and performance. About half think the American press has been too aggressive in asking government officials for information about the war on terrorism. More than four in 10 say they would limit the academic freedom of professors and ban criticism of government military policy.

Fear can limit freedom, as President George W. Bush noted when he addressed the nation on Sept. 20, 2001. He said,"The terrorists hate our freedom: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."

A major contributor to the vast ignorance about the First Amendment is our education system, which fails to teach the Constitution. The First Amendment Center, based in Nashville, is doing something about that. It has created an audiovisual presentation called"Freedom Sings." Members of the National Conference of Editorial Writers, meeting last week in Nashville, were invited to a performance before the show goes on the road.

Singers and musicians perform songs that at one time or another in our history have been banned by government, censored by radio or were found offensive by large numbers of Americans. In retrospect, these songs not only sound harmless, but they even prompted conservatives like me to sing along with the Beatles"'Yellow Submarine" and the Vietnam-era anti-war song "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" The program also includes patriotic numbers, such as "Ballad of the Green Berets" and "Yankee Doodle Dandy." A parallel exhibit features books that have been banned, including "Ulysses" and "Lolita," as well as the New Testament and "Little Red Riding Hood."

"Freedom Sings" is designed for college campuses, but it should also be brought to high schools. Some of the music is tailored for the audience. An older group gets anti-war songs. A younger one gets rap music. However, this program wouldn't be necessary if our schools were doing a better job of teaching the fundamental documents and doctrines that make the United States unique among nations.

The program is fun, and what I admire most is that it is scrupulously well-balanced. It would have been easy to trend liberal, as so many do when discussing censorship, but the creators have done an excellent job of provoking thought and appealing to all political perspectives.

The point of teaching the First Amendment is to learn that the same Constitution that protects the rights of people who say things with which you disagree also guards your right to say something with which other people disagree.

As the AJR poll summary concludes: "the terrorists view our personal liberties with contempt and see them as a weakness. The challenge for all Americans is to truly embrace the freedoms of the First Amendment and show just how strong we really are."

Direct all MAIL for Cal Thomas to: Tribune Media Services, 435 N. Michigan Ave, Suite 1500, Chicago, Ill. 60611. Readers may also leave e-mail at www.calthomas.com.

© 2002 TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.


As for your final statement I couldn't agree with you more except that I am not ashamed of this nation, no by no means. That is if you'd just look at the people that try to live their lives pleasing God. After all we are a nation by the people for the people. However that may not include most people in our Govt. or those in the reigns of our businesses and institutions. Just look at how they've distorted the First amendment.

CK Blue said:

They have failed at what they set out to do. They are no longer a key player in the world

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You know, this sounds like a quote describing Germany during the 1920's.

cbk said:

From your above statements, I would tend to think that you would think that the unification of countires, via the U.N., is a bad thing..... Because mankind can not accomplish its utopia.

Is it possible that maybe what is happening in the U.N. today is the same that happened in Babel centuries ago? That maybe, in Babel, a small to medium-sized group led the others astray? Imposed their will on all?? And that God knew it was best for a seperation to occur for the best??

Look at it from a country's level. Look at what Sadaam's tribe did to control the power of Iraq. Could not the same happen via the U.N.???

God's ways are not man's ways. What may SEEM right to us may not be what is best, spiritually and worldly.

Click to expand...

You have no idea of Babel. Disintegration also leads to some IMPOSING WILL on all.

The USA split from the UN regarding Iraq AND it imposed its will on the world. That

makes your theory totally wrong--THE US DID NOT need Unity of nations to do it.

THE USA split up the TOWER of Babel, The USA split the UN and went ahead.

Unity did not lead to the Iraq war.. It was a split in the UN that

led to the will of the USA being imposed on the world .

ARE YOU SO blind not to see that USA etc split from the UN in that regard?

USA, UK and some nations could split from the UN AND IMPOSE THEIR WILL OVER ALL.

It is that easy. THE UN is nothing.

Disintegration IS WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN and The few nations IMPOSED their will

over all. It all boils down to a few nations, whether IN UN or split from UN.

AMERICA SPLITS and disintegrates the UN today, America , UK still control the world.

A split and separate nation existence on earth ALSO LEADS TO NATIONS IMPOSING their will over others. Unity does not mean imposing wills, SEPARATION OF THE TOWER OF BABEL STILL LEADS to others imposing their will.

America is now separate else how could it split and carry OUT A SEPARATE ACTION

FROM THE REST OF THE NATIONS.

Your point does not hold.

You say " And that God knew it was best for a seperation to occur for the best?? "

USA SEPARATED from the UN over Iraq AND YET imposed its will over all. Separate, united irrelevant here.

"As for your final statement I couldn't agree with you more except that I am not ashamed of this nation, no by no means. That is if you'd just look at the people that try to live their lives pleasing God."

There are some that try and lead godly lives, but not all that many. The system we live under is not a godly system, and most Americans believe it is a good system. The system I am speaking of is Capitalism. It promotes selfishness and greed, two things that are against the will of God. But, most Americans disagree there, also, because they see personal prosperity as a good thing. They like buying all the stuff they can manage to get their hands on, and try ever harder to get more.

Christianity is more of a communistic way of life, where we all help each other out and put our personal needs after others. We share without expecting a return, we do not charge interest for loans. It is supposed to be based on Love, not Greed.

But Communism is a bad word in this country because of the way it has been implimented in the past. It is thought that to be communist is to reject God, which I do not see as necessary in the slightest.
Capitalism, on the other hand, because it is based on personal gain, does leave God out of the equation right from the start. It requires that we keep God at a distance to a certain extent, because to truly live as God intends for us to live is impossible in a society based on greed. It breeds the wrong kind of competition, and success is mostly based on what you have accumulated, not what you have learned or done for others.

Democracy I do not have a problem with. But most also think that to be democratic also means to be capitalistic.
Tell me the problem with a communistic democracy.
I see none.

The U.S. is trying to force Capitalism on the world, and it is using democracy as a front, using the reasoning I just stated, that the two necessarily go together, while communism and democracy can not co-exist.

And that forcing of Capitalism is what many in the world, I think, see as offensive. That more than democracy, although dictators like Sadam are probably against both.

Too many in this country think that "liberating" other countries into our image is a good thing, I disagree. We are the most consumer, throw away oriented society on the planet. And it is getting worse every day. We produce the most pollution of any country, yet we resist any attempt to curb that pollution in any significant way because it would mean giving up some of our luxuries. But have you ever considered what would happen if the entire globe polluted at the rate we do? The planet would die in short order.

But that is exactly what the U.S. is trying to push on the world. I agree with those that consider the U.S. as the Great Satan, to a certain extent. The U.S. is trying to take over the world, but just in a round about with mirrors way. The government is devious and deceptive, just as many others I grant, but to think that we are led by "honest politicians" is really pulling the wool over our eyes even faster than the politicians can do it.

Duane Morse said:

Christianity is more of a communistic way of life, where we all help each other out and put our personal needs after others. We share without expecting a return, we do not charge interest for loans. It is supposed to be based on Love, not Greed.

But Communism is a bad word in this country because of the way it has been implimented in the past. It is thought that to be communist is to reject God, which I do not see as necessary in the slightest.
Capitalism, on the other hand, because it is based on personal gain, does leave God out of the equation right from the start. It requires that we keep God at a distance to a certain extent, because to truly live as God intends for us to live is impossible in a society based on greed. It breeds the wrong kind of competition, and success is mostly based on what you have accumulated, not what you have learned or done for others.

Democracy I do not have a problem with. But most also think that to be democratic also means to be capitalistic.
Tell me the problem with a communistic democracy.
I see none.

The U.S. is trying to force Capitalism on the world, and it is using democracy as a front, using the reasoning I just stated, that the two necessarily go together, while communism and democracy can not co-exist.

And that forcing of Capitalism is what many in the world, I think, see as offensive. That more than democracy, although dictators like Sadam are probably against both.

Too many in this country think that "liberating" other countries into our image is a good thing, I disagree. We are the most consumer, throw away oriented society on the planet. And it is getting worse every day. We produce the most pollution of any country, yet we resist any attempt to curb that pollution in any significant way because it would mean giving up some of our luxuries. But have you ever considered what would happen if the entire globe polluted at the rate we do? The planet would die in short order.

But that is exactly what the U.S. is trying to push on the world. I agree with those that consider the U.S. as the Great Satan, to a certain extent. The U.S. is trying to take over the world, but just in a round about with mirrors way. The government is devious and deceptive, just as many others I grant, but to think that we are led by "honest politicians" is really pulling the wool over our eyes even faster than the politicians can do it.

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Wow, I'd agree with you but for the fact that as long as there are ungodly men that are in the majority of powerful political offices of the nations of the world, no matter what form of government they rule over, they will always be after their self intrest and not after the betterment of their people.

Only Jesus changes hearts to motivate people to give of themselves for the betterment of their fellow man. If you get a government, Communist, Capitalist or anything that is devised by man to force people to give unwillingly of themselves it will surley fall into corruption.

While the US has its faults and God knows all of them, it does allow many God fearing men and women to freely express their need and God called duty, to help others. However because this nation has rejected God in our generation it too will fall into corruption, if its people do not humble themseleves and pray and seek God.