webboffin said:
cajunhillbilly that does not explain that the trinity is true. And no we don't have to stick to the historic teachings of the church! We should stick to the teachings of the Bible that God PROVIDED to us, that is what it is there for. The church is so full of traditions of men - it has forgotten Bible truths! But cunning Satan has had a long time to work on the churches. The churches are puppets to the State hence most religious leaders rub shoulders with important politicians and people of high office. Church leaders are human beings and corruptable like the pharisees of Jesus's day. Biblical truth about God has been ripped out of true worship instead he has become 3 persons God - DETESTABLE!!!. Jesus has been slandered to being a God when he never claimed the Most High status. Jesus always said he was his Father's humble servant whether in heaven or on the Earth. So many millions are fooled and blindly cling to the churches own desired teachings. The Churches are the harlot Revelation talks about. False religion of Christianity that distort God's true status. The Trinity is a lie and an insult to Jesus and God.
First of all, Where do you think the bible came from? It didn't just fall out of the sky one day. In fact, the church existed for almost 400 years before the bible was ever canonized. Your ideas that the book supercedes the writer is what's corrupt. Speaking of corrupt, you insist that the church is full of
men subject to corruption. Are you not a man? Or is it that you believe yourself to be so much more holy and pure than all others who came before you? Self righteous ignorance of Christianity and ignorant rejection of what God has revealed through His church has left you with a blind shallow crumb of what the faith actually is. As I said in my earlier post, the trinity does not seek to define God, it reveals more of Him in order that our love for Him might be more complete. You can't love what you don't know. This is why God reveals these things to His people, in order that they might love Him all the more.
As for scripture, let's examine the evidences:
let's begin at the beginning Gn 1:26(emphasis added)
"26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth."
Here we see, God making a self reference in the plural. That's odd isn't it... Why'd He say "WE"?
Now, we'll look a little bit ahead at Gn 18:1-6 (emphasis added)
"1 And the Lord appeared to him in the vale of Mambre as he was sitting at the door of his tent, in the very heat of the day.
2 And when he had lifted up his eyes, there appeared to him three men standing near to him: and as soon as he saw them, he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground.
3 And he said: Lord, if I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away from thy servant.
4 But I will fetch a little water, and wash ye your feet, and rest ye under the tree.
5 And I will set a morsel of bread, and strengthen ye your heart, afterwards you shall pass on: for therefore are you come aside to your servant. And they said: Do as thou hast spoken."
Hmm. There we go again. Here in the same scripture you claim to follow completely, we see Abraham (who I'm sure knew God a little better than you do) referring these three men as Lord and falling down in adoration. Notice that he didnt say "Lords, if I have found favor in your sight..." though it's clear from His language that he sees three persons.
These appear to be oddities in the mystery of God in scripture until Jesus comes and reveals it more clearly.
We'll begin with Mt 28:19 (emphasis added)
"19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost."
Hmm, there's that oddity again from the Old testament, but now Jesus gives those "three men" names. Notice that he says in the name of... not names of... there are 3 names, why not refer to the three plurally? Why baptize in all 3 names? The answer is that they are indeed one name but still three.
Now, let's look at Lk 3:21-22 (emphasis added)
"21 Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also being baptized and praying, heaven was opened.
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased."
Here we go again. Here, we see clearly all three persons present at one time. We see obviously Jesus being baptized, and we hear the voice of the Father from heaven, and we also see the Holy Spirit descending like a dove. Hmm, this is too much!
Now as for Jesus never claiming divinity, let's see if that's a "tradition of man" or if there's any scriptural merit...
We'll begin with Jn 10
"30 I and the Father are one.
31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him.
33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.
36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world: Thou blasphemest; because I said: I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father."
Hmm, here, things get ugly when our Lord says "I and the father are one". The Jews knew exactly what He meant and saight to stone Him. Even after He make reference to the miraculous works He performs in relation to this claim, they are unconvinced. Notice that He doesn't say "oh, you misunderstood, I didn't mean to say I'm actually God, lemme rephrase that" He simply reaffirms and solidifies His earlier claim in relation to His works which give testament to His claim.
There are many other times particularly in the Gospels where our Lord says things which are lost through translation and through cultural differences. Like in the Gospel of Mark 6:50
"They had all seen him and were terrified. But at once he spoke with them, "Take courage, it is I, do not be afraid!" . Here, the hilighted is better rendered "Take courage, I AM". Of course "I AM" is instantly recognizeable by any Jew of the day who is familiar with scripture. It' is how God refers to Himself in the first person.
In closing, we've barely scratched the surface of of the evidence for Jesus' divinity as well as the trinity. To simply reject God's revelation about Himself is to effectively limit your own ability to love Him.