For evolutionists that were christians at one time.
- Thread starter ikester7579
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I see this is an old thread, but just add that I never doubted evolution when I was a Christian. And it had nothing to do with me deconverting. It wasn't until a while after my deconversion that I became aware of the anti-evolution movement.
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX
Liberated from SinComplex
lucaspa said:
Excellent book by the way, highly recomended for christians, written by a devout christian biologist, shows how evolution does not conflict with christianity. Its the first book I read that got me interested in the topic
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franklin
Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
ikester7579 said:
So what you are saying is, since you became a Christian your not allowed to associate with those who have a different viewpoint than you have now ?
Sounds like to me you have been deceived by religious indoctrination.
I suppose you call that having freedom in Christ ?
Is that really freedom ?
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franklin said:
In all fairness, that wasn't what Ikester was saying. If you gain a new hobby -- such as sailing -- you tend to hang around fellow sailors because you have more in common to talk about than your non-sailing friends.
I noticed the same thing when I had kids. I saw less and less of my friends who were still childless. We simply didn't have anything in common to talk about. Much of my life revolved around the kids and the time the kids took cut into my former activities. No time to hang out, have a few beers, and play pinball. So we drifted apart and I began hanging out with other new parents.
I think Ikester is saying something similar about people with strong religious convictions. There simply is little in common anymore with non-believing friends.
Now, certainly Jesus urged association with EVERYONE, particularly the down and out of society.
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Well, except that he said it was hard to let go of friends. Did you find it hard to let go of friends with whom you'd stopped having things in common? I lost touch with some friends after living over here for a while, but I made very sure to stay in touch with the ones who were really close.
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX
Liberated from SinComplex
lucaspa said:
Too bad this happens, causeing unneeded seperation between social and cultural classes. I was really close to the people in my church, invested 10 years of my life, 3 days a week. Now they treat me like I have some disease. I make it a point to call at least once a month to a few individuals too maintian contact for the past 3 years. They NEVER call me back. I feel like I only give them more information to gossip about. I am still the same person I was while I was involved in the church. On the subject of gossip, funny story, a few months ago a few of my friends stopped by ( Mexican, tattoos, low rider, looking like gangsters) to BORROW my telescope ( for the lunar eclipse), some childrens disney movies ( for the kids), and a few science and Buddhist books( for themselves). So here they are walking out of my house with a arm load of my stuff. My sister drives by and sees this happening. Next thing you know my family thinks I was selling my personal belongings for drugs! How frustrating!
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ReUsAbLePhEoNiX said:
I know what you mean. I had some gossip spread around about me in my church and I know who started it. The problem in most churches is that most do not teach what not to say, and what not to do, and why. People will gossip, lie, steal, and cheat others right in church.
But sin is everywhere. And I don't care how good a church is, someone is always there that will do this. The pastor cannot control all that goes on. But, when a problem arises in a church it needs to be brought to the attention of the pastor. How the pastor deals with the problem will tell you a lot about the church. The same person who started the gossip about me started some more about someone else. Someone who had just started coming back to church. I knew if it got back to them that they would quit coming to church. So I did what I should have done the first time. I told the pastor what was going on, and I also told him that this person was saying things about others. So he called and and set up an appointment to speak with this person about this problem. I do not know what was said in the office of that pastor, but the gossiper stopped gossiping. And his next sermon was on gossiping and how what you say can hurt people.
When people don't tell the pastor what's going on, he does not know, nor can he do the right thing. If I would have done what I should have done the first time, the problem would have been solved before the gossip about another person got going. If this really bothers you, call the pastor of that church and tell him why you quit going and why your not comming back. Your name will not be used and make sure that you request it not be used. If he is a man of God he will address this by confronting the people who are doing this privately and confront the congregation in a sermon. For if he does not want to deal with this, then this is the reason the problem exists. Gossip will seperate and possibly split a church. The church I go to had that happen. But it was because someone else did not tell the pastor what was going on and it had gotten so out of hand the church broke up. And if you don't tell this pastor what is going on, the same may happen. And a lot of innocent people will get hurt over a few who don't care and continue to gossip about others.
Gossiping is judging others. The Bible says not to do that! To keep a church running smoothly, there has to be communication. Good or bad the pastor needs to know.
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franklin said:
There are those who will drag you back into sin. Example: Lets say someone had a problem with drugs. That person goes to church and accepts Jesus and get delivered from drugs. Now if that person hangs around his old buddies who do drugs, what do you think they will do? Hey come on, do a little refer, or coke. It won't hurt. God want know. I certainly won't tell him etc... If his drug friends truly respected him, they would not try to tempt him in this manner. This is why, If a christian wants to abstain from sin, he has to seperate himself from those who would try to push him back into it. His real friends would not do that. Or would they?
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So what your saying is: All evolutionists believe in God?
Since God cannot be proven or disproven by science, how can you mix evolution into it?
Evolution is science right?
Where is the line drawn between science and God?
It's like saying: Can an atheist believe in God and still be a atheist?
Can a chriatian be a christian and not believe in God?
Or by saying this are you saying evolution has become a religion too?
When you mix something you say is not a religion with something that is, what have you made it?
Nope.
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
No, what he's saying is, being an evolutionist does not automatically disqualify a person from being a theist.ikester7579 said:
One can be both, although one obviously could not be both an evolutionist and a Bible literalist.
You don't mix evolution and God. They don't mix at all. They are two separate things, so they don't mix, and they don't contradict.
Crudely put, but yes.
There is none.
*Sigh* for the 14,628th time on these boards, science has nothing, absolutely nothing, to say on the existence of God. Science operates independently of the divine. The rules that science works under, and its findings, would still work under any god, if there were twenty gods, or no god.
Bad analogy. As has been explained to you many times, Atheism is not a requirement for evolution.It's like saying: Can an atheist believe in God and still be a atheist?
Can a chriatian be a christian and not believe in God?
Or by saying this are you saying evolution has become a religion too?
I wouldn't know. Nobody who understands the ToE would mix it with religion.
That's more of a creationist tactic.
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Nathan Poe said:
Some people do. A lot of people (including on this board) are fans of the "God controls evolution" theory.
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yeah, but evolution still doesn't do anything to prove the existence or non-existence of god. god is not even remotely a topic in evolution.
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you know, i seem to get the feeling that ikester isn't grasping the concept of gray areas... everything seems to be black and white for him.
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franklin
Sexed up atheism = Pantheism
ikester7579 said:
Do you think it's possible for someone to stop doing drugs on their own without any help from a person named Jesus who supposedly lived thousands of years ago ?
I would say yes it is. It happens all the time .
Is it also possible for people to find happiness and contentment in life without Christ ?
Would you consider associating with freethinkers, humanists and/or atheists ?
Why would you not want to ? If you are very strong in your Christian faith why not associate with someone with that point of view ?
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franklin said:
1. Yes it does. But like I said, some are so addicted that they seek a wiser power and have to abstain from the people who they used to do drugs, or what ever, because they cannot resist the temptation alone.
2. Never said they could not. But those who have truly experienced what it's like to feel God's presence, there's nothing that comes even close. It's hard to put into words. But the closest I can come: It's like a parent who expresses unconditional love for you. Where you are the most important thing to them and nothing else matters. So much so, he even died so you could live..... If you saw a child fixen to walk out into the path of a car and you could save the child, but give your life in the process, would you? That's what Christ did.
3. Yes, I have no problem. I have a couple of friends who are just that. They respect me for my beliefs and I respect them. But we still talk or debate the issue.
4. Like I said, no problem. The only time I would have a problem with it is when everytime I see them they have to make a snide remark about what I believe. That's disrepectful. But here, this is a open forum. Stuff like that goes on. No one likes it, but when it comes to different points of veiw or beliefs there will be the butting of heads LOL.
Besides, just like you, I have free will to pick who my friends are. I have even been friends with a satanist. Not good friends, but friends. I prayed for him quite often, and told him about it. He did not seem to mind. He was a co-worker. Just goes to show we can get along if we try.
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