The White Horse (Rev. 6)

Poiema,

I do not see where the 7 years are contained in the seven seals, but I have thought along the same lines.

I see no evidence as to where, exactly, the seven years will begin in Revelation. Is it after the opening of the first seal? The blowing of the 1st trumpet? The pouring of the 1st vial? These are debatable.

I am inclined to believe that the first seven seals have already taken place. The first seal could be Christianity, or the first of the four beasts of Daniel, or neither. I lean toward the first seal being the birth of Christianity. The fourth could be the Black Death that spread through Europe after the battle of Koffa (I believe that is the way it is spelled). The second could be the beginning of the Muslim religion which has distorted the view of the God of Abraham, rejects Christ as dieing for sin, and which ruled over Jerusalem for much of the previous 2,000 years. The third represents a famine which I have not yet found evidence for in a chronological context. The 5th could have taken place anytime, for there would be no earthly evidence of this event. The sixth could have been WWII as an "earthquake" with much symbolism where the sky receding being the dawn of the atomic age. During this time, men hid himself thinking the end was near for fear.

The seals may have happened already. The trumpets, to me, symbolize that the season is near for Christ to return upon the clouds in Rev. 14:14-16. For the seventh trumpet is the LAST trumpet to be blown and Jesus, in Matthew 24:30-31, tells us the importance of him coming upon a cloud and in I Corinthians 15:50-58 you will see the significance of the LAST trumpet.

Revelation 14:14-16 EQUALS Matthew 24:30-31 PLUS I Corinthians 15:50-58.

Just some thoughts.

Just wondreing; why cant the anti-christ be revealed before the mid-point of the tribulation? After all he does confirm the covenant for Israel and the middle east. I am inclined to believe that the white horse is a symbol for the antichrist,also the anti-christ breaks the covenant 3.5 years after confirming it, so yes he does make his appearance before then.I personally believe the tribulation begins when the anti-christ confirms the peace treaty, so how can he confirm it for three and a half years if he hasn't yet appeared?

Jayswife29. I believe you are correct, that he will have to reveal himself before he can sign a treaty (or confirm a covenant). But where in Revelation does it mention that a covenant is formed? Does a covenant HAVE to be a treaty? Does it have to be bilateral? Or, could a covenant be imposed upon the Jews, ie, unilateral, take it or leave it?

I am confused as to the use of the words "peace" and "treaty". Where is this found in scripture? Or is this an assumption? Curious.

I found these definitions on the 'net.

noun: (Bible) an agreement between God and his people in which God makes certain promises and requires certain behavior from them in return

Covenant, in its most general sense, is a word for a solemn contract or similar undertaking.

I believe a covenant can be made without it being a treaty and without it being signed by the second party.

I know I bring it up time and time again. But, the "quartet" has imposed a covenant on Israel and Palestine to bring peace. I believe this to be significant for further study.

Poiema said:

In our Monday night Bible study of the end times we are in Rev. 6 and an interesting point was made that I hadn't heard before. My mind is made up becxause it is a Biblical stance, bu I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks.

Rev 6:1-2 says "Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, "Come." I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer."

Many people have said this is the anti-christ, but I was very interested in this point made:

First of all, the scroll contains the Great 7-year Tribulation, so the 7 seals on the scroll must come before the tribulation, as precurors. So how could it be the anti-christ when the anti-christ doesn't even make his appearance until 3.5 yrs into the trib?
Another consideration is that at NO other place in the book of Rev is the color WHITE attribued to somehing evil. In fact, the opposite is true: at every mention of the color white it is always in reference to Jesus or His people. I haven't done a Bible-wide word study yet, but I can't think of ANY other time that WHITE is attributed to something evil. Why then, would it be a color for the anti-christ in Rev 6? I am more inclined to believe that this symbolism is in reference to the Church or the Gospel.

Another thing that I'll have to look into is the crown. Besides literal kings in the Bible, the only people who ever receive crowns are Christ and His people, the Church. Why would the anti-christ have a crown? And who gave it to him?

Just some things I'm considering these days and wanted to know what others thought.

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Okay, first the four horsemen all bring negative attrocities upon the earth, war, famine, disease.... why would Jesus be part of these four? That makes no sense... but here's more proof...

(Revelation 13:10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

(Revelation 13:11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

One and the same. He will be like a lamb, a saviour, but he will speak as a dragon, a serpent. And we know how the serpent fooled Eve. He will be shifty and many will follow him as a messiah of peace on earth. The white horse that he rides in on symbolizes that he will ride in under the guise of peace and truth but he is allowed to make war. Why would Christ come to make war? He didn't want to make war the first time He was here, why would He want to come back and make war in the future?

But the proof that the rider of the the white is not being Jesus is right there within the verses you posted Poima, read it again very carefully...

(Revelation 6:1) And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, {Jesus is opening the seals and showing John what will take place} and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. Why wouldn't he be referred to as a Lamb once again and why not a reference made that He was showing John Himself in the future.

(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. The white horse symbolizes that the rider is coming in peace, a saviour, but why would he go forth to conquer? Jesus's victory for us is spiritual and eternal not by killing flesh in war. He already won the victory on Calvary's hill. Also, the crown symbolizes that authority will be handed over to this rider but it doesn't say who gives him this authority, men or our Lord.

JesusServant said:

(Revelation 6:1) And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, {Jesus is opening the seals and showing John what will take place} and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. Why wouldn't he be referred to as a Lamb once again and why not a reference made that He was showing John Himself in the future.

(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. The white horse symbolizes that the rider is coming in peace, a saviour, but why would he go forth to conquer? Jesus's victory for us is spiritual and eternal not by killing flesh in war. He already won the victory on Calvary's hill. Also, the crown symbolizes that authority will be handed over to this rider but it doesn't say who gives him this authority, men or our Lord.

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True, not Jesus, but what about the distorted form of Christianity that appears white and holy, but conquered nations (crusades) and killed many peoples (Inquistion and the like) and justified many acts that aren't Christian in nature (slavery, segregation, etc.) during the last 1000+ years?

Christianity preaches whiteness and salvation, so, if a distorted form of Christianity rose to power and used its power in an evil way to conquer (IE, Holy Roman Empire/Pope/etc), then could not this rider fit the description??? And, another question. Do you think Christ looks favorably upon the majority of Christian rulers during the last 1800+ years???

cbk said:

True, not Jesus, but what about the distorted form of Christianity that appears white and holy, but conquered nations (crusades) and killed many peoples (Inquistion and the like) and justified many acts that aren't Christian in nature (slavery, segregation, etc.) during the last 1000+ years?

Christianity preaches whiteness and salvation, so, if a distorted form of Christianity rose to power and used its power in an evil way to conquer (IE, Holy Roman Empire/Pope/etc), then could not this rider fit the description??? And, another question. Do you think Christ looks favorably upon the majority of Christian rulers during the last 1800+ years???

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I've thought about this as well cbk and it's a very good point. That's why I've gotten to the point of not trying so hard to exact future prophecy. I'm just focusing on living life the best I can and giving Him the glory for it. The more I go round and round in Scripture and compare everyone's opinions and resolve them my head hurts. So I just leave it to God to work out His plan and when I see Jesus face to face all the suffering will have been well worth it. It's just kind of hard for people to see it that way in the now.

God bless

JesusServant said:

I've thought about this as well cbk and it's a very good point. That's why I've gotten to the point of not trying so hard to exact future prophecy. I'm just focusing on living life the best I can and giving Him the glory for it. The more I go round and round in Scripture and compare everyone's opinions and resolve them my head hurts. So I just leave it to God to work out His plan and when I see Jesus face to face all the suffering will have been well worth it. It's just kind of hard for people to see it that way in the now.

God bless

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I know the way you fill. But, in my spirit, I believe we are close to the first trumpet, but, of course, I am compelled to explain the seven seals.

The seals to me, IF they have already happened, which, of course, is subject to debate, could be (to me) the following:

Seal 1 -- Polluted Christianity starting with the Roman Empire.
Seal 2 -- Birth of Islam
Seal 3 -- ????
Seal 4 -- Black Death Plague over Europe and Asia
Seal 5 -- A heavenly event with no earthly way of knowing the date
Seal 6 -- War -- possible dawn of Atomic Age
Seal 7 -- ????

Just looking at the seals from a LONG-TERM perspective and not within a seven year period. Because I believe prophecy passes with few if any realizing them until after they happen, I was just studying the possibility that many of us are looking for events to happen in the future which may have already taken place in the past! This seems typical, especially with the Jews looking for the first coming of the Messiah when it took place in the past.

Poiema said:

Hi JesusServant. Thank you for your response. I'm not into this to try to change minds, only o see what others think but I do feel like no matter what we choose o believe here, we should be Scriptural about it



You are right ... it doesn't make sense, and it's also NOT what the Bible says. No where in the introduction of the white horse do we see a negative such as war and famine. It only says that he comes forward to conquer.

(Revelation 13:10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

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Hey, good point. I was assuming there.

I'm not sure what you're getting at in this verse unless you are pointing out that those who live by the sword die by the sword and the rider on the white horse has a bow. If that is what you are poining out, then I have no problem with the idea of the Church having a weapon since the Sword of the Word is in our hands. The interesting thing is that only the Christian has power to wield the Sword since we have already died by it. However, it being a bow and not a sword makes me lean more toward this being the Gospel itself, not the Church.

(Revelation 13:11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

One and the same. He will be like a lamb, a saviour, but he will speak as a dragon, a serpent. And we know how the serpent fooled Eve. He will be shifty and many will follow him as a messiah of peace on earth. The white horse that he rides in on symbolizes that he will ride in under the guise of peace and truth but he is allowed to make war. Why would Christ come to make war? He didn't want to make war the first time He was here, why would He want to come back and make war in the future?

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Of course, I agree with you here, bu I think you have made an error in reading the verse itself. It does not say he appears as a lamb. In fact, it calls him a beast. It only has horns like a lamb would have, as opposed to the horns like you might see on some other horned animal. I do not see that this verse would go against the idea of the white horse being a holy entity such as the Church or the Gospel.

But the proof that the rider of the the white is not being Jesus is right there within the verses you posted Poima, read it again very carefully...

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Actually, I never said that I believe the rider to be Jesus. I only said that the word White is Never used for evil in all of Revelation but that it always refers to Jesus or something to do with Jesus (such as the Church or His Gospel).

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(Revelation 6:2) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. The white horse symbolizes that the rider is coming in peace, a saviour, but why would he go forth to conquer? Jesus's victory for us is spiritual and eternal not by killing flesh in war. He already won the victory on Calvary's hill. Also, the crown symbolizes that authority will be handed over to this rider but it doesn't say who gives him this authority, men or our Lord.

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Remember that this passage is spirtitually symbolic. I did not say that I believe that this is a literal being who will go forth and conquer the physical world with a bow from atop a white horse. However, the Gospel of Christ Does, indeed, conquer does it not? And as the Gospel is preached throughout the earth it continuies to conquer the souls of men. So that certainly does not go against the idea here of "conquoring."

I'm almost firmly inclined to believe that this white horse is the Church or the Gospel (more inclined toward Gospel).
But I am running this by everyone to see if anyone can show me any error in this line of thinking and I just don't see it yet. In fact, I think there is error to apply White, which Always refers to Holiness, to an evil entity such as the anti-christ.

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I may have misunderstood you somewhat, sorry about that.

I think that we need to look at Rev. 6:1-8 in the context of history and future events.

The horses are the ages of the political time line of past, present and future political, religious, and economic events. While the horses and their riders have already arrived on the world stage of history, their influence is still felt and continue to ride the wave of biblical promise until the Pale horse and his rider arrive on the scene. When he does come it will fulfill the march of religious, political, and economic world time as it relates to the church age.

Looking at the White Horse and its rider in the context of history, as we see it, for John saw all these events as future. I believe this refers to the reign of Constantine the Great. As we know the story of history he as Caesar had a vision that he should with the sign of the cross go forth and conquer. With that encouragement he did win the battle. Please see the link below.

www.roman-emperors.org/conniei...
An Online Encyclopedia of Roman Emperors that gives the following introduction.

The emperor Constantine has rightly been called the most important emperor of Late Antiquity. His powerful personality laid the foundations of post-classical European civilization; his reign was eventful and highly dramatic. His victory at the Milvian Bridge counts among the most decisive moments in world history, while his legalization and support of Christianity and his foundation of a 'New Rome' at Byzantium rank among the most momentous decisions ever made by a European ruler. The fact that ten Byzantine emperors after him bore his name may be seen as a measure of his importance and of the esteem in which he was held.

Therefore there is no doubt that this is the start of the ride of this white horse. Every report of this event in history gives Constantine the Great much praise. However the rulers that follow him will not tolerate any form of Christian belief, save that of what is set up by the Holy Roman Empire.

While this Empire has gone the way of the history books it still has much influence on today’s world scene in the form of a surviving church system. Today’s rider does wear a crown that he calls the crown of heaven but it is actually the crown of Constantine. He has a “bow” in his hand (the crucifix on his staff). Every rider of this white horse has always worn white raiment and has since demanded that every explorer that has come out of Europe claim the newfound land in the name of this church and it’s king (going forth to conquer).

The red horse and his rider join in the ride of the white horse in the form of Communism.
The current rider of the white horse is from a former Communist nation. Not that this is the only association that the white horse has with the red horse it is just an interesting coincidence or is it. One of the writers of the Communist doctrine was a member of this church. There are many other associations, or riding side by side as it were.

John says this about the red horse and it’s rider in verse 4.
1) Power will be given to him. The U.S.S.R. got the atomic bomb, the great sword, shortly after World War II beginning the Cold War that lasted 50+ years. Communist China soon follows and is not long before they gain the knowledge of the nuclear weapon.
2) Peace is to be taken from the earth. These two nation’s atomic power, along with the opposing force of the United States, takes peace from the earth. Right now we are struggling with the prospect of a nuclear power in North Korea.
3) They kill their own, weather it is kindred or political rivals to stay in power.
Now that we have covered the Religious and Political rides of the white horse and the red horse let’s take a look at the Economic ride of the black horse. Until resent market down turns the world was in a trader’s paradise set up by the fall of communism and the Soviet Union. Though the red horse may have stopped its ride through Europe, the Black horse joins the ride of the other two as the others are still shaping the lives of many people throughout the world. Many think that the black horse is associated with plague and economic collapse. I am more incline to think that it is the progress of trade that rides on this horse. Look at what is going on today. Many nations are negotiating treatises and establishing free trade zones, re; European Common Market, European Union, North Atlantic Free Trade Association, etc. Treatises and Trade are the balances in the hand of this rider as the leaders of various nations try to meet out the differences of monetary exchange rates and the production of oil and wine. This is the ride of the black horse and we are witnesses of it.

The ride of the pale horse is yet to come but you can count on it to begin soon. As the economic condition continues to go downward I think that you will have ups and downs in the markets around the world. There is coming a day when the all markets and currencies will be in total collapse. There will be wide spread famine and no one will be able to survive. Then the rider of the pale horse comes out of the sunset to save the day. Instead of Life he brings Death, which the Bible says his name is Death and Hell follows him.

What will follow in the march of time are the rapture and then the Wrath of God.

Thank you very much for the advice but as for me it is the Biblical context (John's prophecy of his future) that prompts the look through our history or the real meaning of the 4 horsemen could be misinterpreted.

As respect to the crown, Constantine and the rulers that follow have one. Our Lord and Saviour has many crowns (Rev. 19:11-16) they are not given to him these crowns are his because of who He is. The rider of the horse in chapter 6:2's crown was given to him through the heritage or legacy of Constantine. Jesus rides a white horse and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. He does not come to conquer as does the rider in 6:2. His weapon is His WORD that comes out as a sharp sword. The rider of 6:2 carries a bow that he welds as a tribute to the crucified one that is still on the cross. With that image he conquers.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is not on the cross He came off was burried and ressurected the third day. Becaues he destroyed death, hell and the grave he has all athority to make judgements and war against the beast and his followers.

I understand that the rider of 6:2 is a counterfit of the church set up by Constantine. The Church or Bride of Christ does not get its horse or clothing until Rev. 19:14. We have as yet to wear the garment of righteousness until the 4 horses of chapter 6 have had their ride. Look at 6:9-11.

The Church in Revelation is always given in the feminine form as Bride or her. See verse 2 of chapter 21. The rider of verse 2 chapter 6 is referred to in the male form.

Poiema said:

Um, I see your point but don't you agree it is far more important to view these verses in Biblical context First? Historical conext certainly plays a role, I'm not arguing that, but Biblical context is paramount.

But, if you would look to history first, then Why the White? Why the Bow? Why the Crown? These must certainly mean something in conjunction with your idea of Constantine.

I would encourage you to always consider Scripural reference FIRST, and historical reference afterwards.

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The scriptures as regarding events such as the 4 horses or other end times become TIED IN WITH History and current events. While one must interpret the scriptures properly, without AN ACTUAL event description, the scriptures, especially end time scriptures cannot be anything more than words with a hidden meaning.

In order to understand Revelations, the scripture must be properly identified as

being fulfilled in some past-present events.

Having said that, we, as humans, have not experienced any true Christlike leadership

whenever Christians have had control over huge portions of earth as in the times of

Papal Rome. Hence the White Horse does not symbolise white as in Christlike linen purity

but something with the intent or assumption of being Christian, but falling short of the true intent of God. It is however given the ability to conquer in order to fulfil some plan of God but not because it is truly Christlike.