Preterism and the Holy Spirit

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parousia70

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frost said:
P70,
Any thoughts on my last post about Acts 1:9-11?

There are a couple views I am looking at right now regarding that.

1st, is that Christ was to return "in like manner as" we went "into heaven".
How did He go "into heaven"? Hidden from the eyes by a cloud (vs. 9)

Jesus said He would "come in the clouds". The "clouds" being the theme of the "like manner as". About "like manner as", it does not mean exactitude of detail, as it's use elsewhere in scripture bears out.(Matt 23:37, Luke 13:34) Even the staunch futurist must admit to this for the "Localized" ascention in no way resembles the kind of "Global" 2nd coming that they are looking for.

2nd, is that Acts 1:9-11 does not fortell the Parousia, but fortells the various appearances of Christ "From heaven" to the disciples, recorded for us in the Book of Acts.

Either one works for me.
 
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parousia70

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
Those books are not written by the Holy spirit [2peter1:19-21]

OT isn't for US and not DOCTRINE to live by Romans 15:4 John 13:34-35 luke 16:16 John 1:17


So you would contend that Abraham Lincoln never lived because the Holy Spirit never wrote about him??

You would also throw the OT out of your Bible?

WOW!
Good luck with that.
 
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parousia70 said:
So you would contend that Abraham Lincoln never lived because the Holy Spirit never wrote about him??

You would also throw the OT out of your Bible?

WOW!
Good luck with that.



NO but when they differ with several different verses in Scripture
there off
 
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parousia70

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
NO but when they differ with several different verses in Scripture
there off

I agree.

Nothing I have said differs with scripture however, it affirms scripture.
Since is appears you disagree, why don't you give us an example of where you believe Josephus differs with scripture.

Now, about the OT, you'd throw it out? It has no value to you?
 
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frost

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parousia70 said:
There are a couple views I am looking at right now regarding that.

1st, is that Christ was to return "in like manner as" we went "into heaven".
How did He go "into heaven"? Hidden from the eyes by a cloud (vs. 9)

Jesus said He would "come in the clouds". The "clouds" being the theme of the "like manner as". About "like manner as", it does not mean exactitude of detail, as it's use elsewhere in scripture bears out.(Matt 23:37, Luke 13:34) Even the staunch futurist must admit to this for the "Localized" ascention in no way resembles the kind of "Global" 2nd coming that they are looking for.

2nd, is that Acts 1:9-11 does not fortell the Parousia, but fortells the various appearances of Christ "From heaven" to the disciples, recorded for us in the Book of Acts.

Either one works for me.

The first explanation would mean Luke was writing figuratively, which as I said earlier, is not typical of his writings. He did not write using Jewish allegory to OT events. Also, before he was hidden by the cloud, it says he was taken up. So, "in like manner" doesn't necessarily mean hidden by clouds, but instead could be referring to the being taken up part.

The second explanation sounds intriguing; to what other appearances of Christ to the disciples are you referring in Acts?
 
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adelpit346

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How does Christ Jesus return to this earth?
It is a simple thing to understand.
Try reading this passage Genesis 28:12, for so this time He comes in similitude with The Saints raised and The Sheep Raptured.
As i said it is simple. The ladder rises from the earth to 1st heaven(the clouds in the sky.)
Thankyou Jesus.
i am nothing0 and come to simplify what you can not understand for you had Not The Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
 
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GW

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ADELPIT:
How does Christ Jesus return to this earth?

GW:
Like the Father did in Old Testament times:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father


And, more importantly, WHEN did Jesus return? Quite plainly, Jesus promised the apostles that they would experience the endtime signs and His return in their generation:

Matthew 24:33-34
so, YOU TOO [the apostles], when YOU see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.




The second coming of Christ already happened, in their generation. Jesus cannot lie.
 
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adelpit346

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Thankyou Lord Jesus for our protagonist gw, for in the absence of his thoughtfull testing how much more difficult this business of educating Your Sheep would be!
Verily i say my brother gw brings a smile and a laugh to my heart, for a thousand times i have dealt with this question and The Lord by The Spirit of Truth brought forth THE TRUTH in a snap!
So here is The Truth.
Go to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the 7th is the Best and under the definations of "generation", you will find a section of Obsolete usages of this word "generation". Now then under b. see this:RACE;KIND;BREED;STOCK.
SO to answer your question and NOT make JESUS a LIAR, when He(Jesus) spoke This Truth He spoke of a Race,kind, breed and stock of men....those being those who can not believe least THE HAVE SEEN THE MIRACLES. AMEN AMEN AMEN
And so i who am nothing0 thankyou gw for bringing us this point, for you specifically are among that GENERATION, and i see you have NOT passed away.
YOU will see The Lord coming down His ladder Jacob saw. amen
i am nothing0 and by The Holy Spirit/Ghost 110% correct in all these Spiritual things.
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
P.S. Do not forget to give to the last beggar on this earth you would want to give to, might be an Angel of The Lord Jesus. amen
Yea Lord i know the STRENGHT of those things By The Spirit You have given me to bring by the speed in which those without faithe go to remove them.
Thankyou Jesus.
 
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adelpit346

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Though i am chief in this world in all Spiritual things, for Jesus by The Holy Ghost and The Spirit of Truth has made me this thing, i am servant to His Sheep, for i have come to wash their feet.
And as there are a great many of them, i have a lot of feet to wash. amen
i am nothing0
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
 
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parousia70 said:
You would also throw the OT out of your Bible?

WOW!
Good luck with that.

FIRST THE GROUND WORK

2 peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

2 tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

question if all scripture is inspired How do you tell

2 tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

HOW?

Isaiah 28:9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make understandeth doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the beasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to his people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backwards, and be broken, and snared, and taken


Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:16 LET US THEREFORE COME BOLDLY UNTO THE THRONE OF GRACE, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

WHY?

Galations 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

WOW...AWESOME.....THATS GRACE


OLD TESTAMENT EXAMPLE

Gen 27:29 Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's son bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

Esther 4:11 All the king's servants and people of the king's provinces, do know, that whosoever whether a man or woman, shall come unto the king into the inner court, who is not called, there is one law of his to put him to death, except such to whom the king shall hold out the golden sceptre:but I have not been called to come in unto the king these thirty days.

EXODUS 19:12............Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up in to the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:

WHAT DID THEY DO?

EXODUS 19:8 THE PEOPLE ANSWERED TOGETHER, AND SAID ALL THAT THE LORD HATH SPOKEN WE WILL DO.........

God considered this a sin. WHY you say? He had done all the work not them


Other verses for what the OT verse are for.....not are doctrine


Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scripture might have hope.

1cor 10:1-5 talked about Moses and the Jews in the wilderness
1COR 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1COR 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for are admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come 12 wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he shall fall.
 
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parousia70

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adelpit346 said:
The Lord by The Spirit of Truth brought forth THE TRUTH in a snap!
So here is The Truth.
Go to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the 7th is the Best and under the definations of "generation", you will find a section of Obsolete usages of this word "generation". Now then under b. see this:RACE;KIND;BREED;STOCK.
SO to answer your question and NOT make JESUS a LIAR, when He(Jesus) spoke This Truth He spoke of a Race,kind, breed and stock of men....those being those who can not believe least THE HAVE SEEN THE MIRACLES. AMEN AMEN AMEN

Adlepit,

So the spirit inspired webster?

As I'm sure you already know, in the bible, usage trumps etymology, so, Why don't you give one or two other examples of Jesus using the term "Generation" to refer to a race of people.
 
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adelpit346 said:
How does Christ Jesus return to this earth?
It is a simple thing to understand.
Try reading this passage Genesis 28:12, for so this time He comes in similitude with The Saints raised and The Sheep Raptured.
As i said it is simple. The ladder rises from the earth to 1st heaven(the clouds in the sky.)
Thankyou Jesus.
i am nothing0 and come to simplify what you can not understand for you had Not The Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen



Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Zech 8:23 Thus saith the Lord of host; In those days it shall come to pass, that Ten men shall take hold out of all langueges of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirts of him that is a jew saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Rev 21-22

these are millium verses not for US for

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they[OT BELIEVERS vs 1-39] without us should not be made perfect.
 
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frost

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Hello all,

Another question has been bugging me that I'd like a preterist perspective on. Matt. 28:19-20

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (NIV)

If the "end of the age" has already occured, Jesus is not with us anymore?

Thanks and God bless..
 
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Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach[disciple] all nations[gentiles], baptizing them in the name[singular Jehovah] of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded, even unto the end of the age. amen

John 21:1 ....Jesus talked to the disciples at the sea of Galilee
John 21:3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing.

Not gifted with Holy Spirit at this time so they can not agape love Gal 5:22-23......

happens in Acts 1:8

And still God has to brew them out of their confort zone

Acts 8:1 .....at this time there was a great persecution against the church which was at JERUSALEM; and they were all scattered abroad throughout theregions of judaea and Samaria, except the apostles

Acts 8:4 Therefore they were scattered abroad abroad went everywhere preaching the word

Definition of Ages = time that God teaches creation something about his self and there is more than one age
 
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frost

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A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
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Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach[disciple] all nations[gentiles], baptizing them in the name[singular Jehovah] of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded, even unto the end of the age. amen

John 21:1 ....Jesus talked to the disciples at the sea of Galilee
John 21:3 Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing.

Not gifted with Holy Spirit at this time so they can not agape love Gal 5:22-23......

happens in Acts 1:8

And still God has to brew them out of their confort zone

Acts 8:1 .....at this time there was a great persecution against the church which was at JERUSALEM; and they were all scattered abroad throughout theregions of judaea and Samaria, except the apostles

Acts 8:4 Therefore they were scattered abroad abroad went everywhere preaching the word

Definition of Ages = time that God teaches creation something about his self and there is more than one age

A Brethern,
Thanks for your reply. However, the preterist position is that "the end of the age," is a reference to Christ's return. They believe that Christ already returned, making that verse meaningless for us today (or so I'm wondering.) So my question was aimed more at that perspective.
 
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parousia70

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Frost,

This verse does not imply that once the end of the age is reached, Jesus would be no longer with them/us.

This verse is not an exclusively preterist problem with that view anyway.

Do the futurists teach that once the future end of the age happens, Jesus leaves?

When my wife and I leave our son with a babysitter for the night, and we tell him "behave until we get home" we certainly are not implying He can misbehave once we return!

Get it?
 
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frost

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parousia70 said:
Frost,

This verse does not imply that once the end of the age is reached, Jesus would be no longer with them/us.

This verse is not an exclusively preterist problem with that view anyway.

Do the futurists teach that once the future end of the age happens, Jesus leaves?

When my wife and I leave our son with a babysitter for the night, and we tell him "behave until we get home" we certainly are not implying He can misbehave once we return!

Get it?

Thanks, that's what I thought you'd say, but I wanted to make sure. "The end of the age" (and similar terms, I thought) always point to the Parusia (or at least the end of the Old Covenant,) but I guess in this case it does not.
 
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parousia70

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frost said:
Thanks, that's what I thought you'd say, but I wanted to make sure. "The end of the age" (and similar terms, I thought) always point to the Parusia (or at least the end of the Old Covenant,) but I guess in this case it does not.


In this case, it does too. The end of the age, in this case (and all biblical cases of "the end of the age") do indeed refer to the parousia, for they are synonymous events.

The difference between futurists and preterists on this, is that preterists affirm that the "end of the age" referrs to the end of the Finite mosaic age @ AD70, while futurists maintain the "end of the age" referrs to the end of the Everlasting gospel age.
:scratch:
 
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JesusServant

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parousia70 said:
In this case, it does too. The end of the age, in this case (and all biblical cases of "the end of the age") do indeed refer to the parousia, for they are synonymous events.

The difference between futurists and preterists on this, is that preterists affirm that the "end of the age" referrs to the end of the Finite mosaic age @ AD70, while futurists maintain the "end of the age" referrs to the end of the Everlasting gospel age.
:scratch:

Of course the Gospel will be everlasting in eternity with Christ. But we die in the physical world today Parousia in case you haven't noticed. I know you guys think that this world will be made perfect over the course of time, but you ignore much of what the Bible says in this belief. This world will never be perfect, hence the need for a new earth. You think it's already here, but if this IS the new earth then you can keep it and I'll go on to be in the new earth God has planned for us at the end of this present age.

The end of the age (old covenant) was solidified at Pentecost in Acts which began the Church age and when that age (the current age) is over then there will be a new earth. The earth today is the same as the earth before Jesus came. So obviously we are NOT in the new earth. You full preterists spend so much time trying to be right that you miss the Gospel entirely. Get born again of the Spirit of God and you'll know the truth.

I don't know what else to say. So many self-professed theologians spend so much time arguing and trying to be right all the time and yet their lives are a shambles because they do not understand the basic SPIRITUAL concepts laid out and a lot of them can't. Why? Because they are not born of the Spirit of God ((2 Timothy 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
). Until then, you will go in circles in the word never understanding because much of it is the Word of Spirit not the word of flesh and of this physical world. So they argue, fuss and fight while satan is having a field day because as long as he keeps us busy "discussing" we won't be doing, feeding, clothing, loving and sharing.

/me gets off his soapbox
 
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