Morning Greetings to you all!
It is such a wonderful morning to be posting with you. How I hope we all will be blessed in some way from this string.
Shamash Of Yeshua said:
Shabbat Shalom RTH,
Verse 11 is saying that YHWH treats everyone the same, he doesn't favor one over the other as Humans tend to treat some with more respect then others. I hope you understand that
I do understand. But I also believe I see instances where treatment is different, but for purpose. I believe the Lord is harsher toward Jews because of their unfaithful history with Him. I did indeed read
Romans 11 again (thanks for the suggestion Pray4Israel). In the KJV of this New Testiment chapter, I am looking at the word choices that seems to clue us in to the differences I believe I see in the Lord's thoughts/treatment toward Jews vs. Gentiles. I actually see a roller coaster of thought here.
This section of scripture seems to say it all, to me at least:
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:
on them which fell, severity; but
toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again
Ok, for the Jew this text says:
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off ..... because of unbelief they were broken off ..... For if God spared not the natural branches on them which fell, severity..... And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graff them in again
For the Gentile this text says:
that I might be grafted in ..... thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear...... take heed lest he also spare not thee toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off
Looking at it this way, seperated out, we see that yes the Jews in unbelief were cut off and severly so. BUT GOD will bring them back in.
The Gentiles however, by faith become part, but are warned - stay in line or get cut off.
I think there are definately two lines of thought here, the exception to the Lord's favor for one over the other. I believe we see here, more is done to and for the Jews than anyone else. The Jews are high maintence!
I feel once we Non-Jews are grafted into the True Vine which is Yahshuah Mashiach(The Messiah), we are considered part of Israel and therefore should observe the Torah.
Alright, knowing my current lack of understanding of Messianic principles, I believe I know that the Torah is the old testiment, correct?
Within that, contains the various laws that the Lord gave to his choosen.
There in the old testiment, how many Gentiles are included in this effort - either given law to share or following law?
I just don't see how so many that say they study the scriptures don't see that? Ever since the Messiah and the original Apostles and Disciples were gone from the scene we see many Non-Jews have become believers in the Messiah and only can understand YHWH the Father, Yahshuah Mashiach the Son, and Yahuahs Ruach in terms of the Non-Jewish Religions they grew up in.
From what I take notice of in your questioning, I am left wondering if you consider Christ as a new "law" replacing (or updating so to speak) the old law, the Torah, of which the Jews of ole could hardly follow correctly. It seemed no one on earth could live up to par for long within that law. I believe with Christ coming on the scene, the Lord "cut some breaks" so to speak and Christ took the place of much of the old law.
Im curious, what part or parts of these laws are you seeing the Non-Jewish religions not following from the Torah?
Of course you know who Hasatan is don't you? I would say you have read about him and how he is out to bring confusion to the world and bring division amoungst the followers of Yahshuah Mashiach.
Here is some interesting info on Hasatan:
The name Satan comes from the hebrew ha-satan , meaning " the adversary " . In the Old testament this term is used exclusively to describe either the enemies of God or the enemies of the Israelite race in general. Not until the advert of the New Testament , the collection of the books and gospels relating to the period subsequent to the birth of the Christian era , does the term ha - satan take on this all - important role . At this point Satan becomes an angel fallen from grace and expelled from heaven , along with his fellow - rebels , by the archangel Michael . References to Satan´s own fall appear in passages such as Luke 10:18 , where Christ is said to have " beheld Satan fallen as lightning from heaven " .
I see the entire Bible, Old and New Testaments as building blocks. Just as the Law seems to be that way.
It starts with Adam and some simple instruction of which he and Eve have trouble with. From there we see Adam's line progress w/the Lord and the Laws get very specific thanks to the innervention of the "hasatan" forces within the world outside the Garden. Yet, things dont improve, with specific guidlines Adam's line still struggles. I think the promise within the New Testiment brings simplicity back into the picture. The law is within Christ now. All the verses you have listed below are Christ.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The Good News According to Matthew
4:4 But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.'
...
7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' 23 Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'
The Good News According to Luke
16:16 The Torah and the Prophets were until Yochanan. From that time the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Torah to become void.
...
23:50 Behold, a man named Joseph, who was a member of the council, a good and righteous man 51 (he had not consented to their counsel and deed), from Arimathaea, a city of the Judeans, who was also waiting for the Kingdom of God: 52 this man went to Pilate, and asked for Yeshua's body. 53 He took it down, and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid him in a tomb that was cut in stone, where no one had ever been laid. 54 It was the day of the Preparation, and the Sabbath was drawing near. 55 The women, who had come with him out of Galilee, followed after, and saw the tomb, and how his body was laid. 56 They returned, and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
If these people who followed and Believed what Yeshua taught then why are they Obeying the Commandments of Torah? I can't remember, yet isn't the preparation of spices and ointments also taught in the Torah?
Yochanan's First Letter
5:1 Whoever believes that Yeshua is the Messiah is born of God. Whoever loves the father also loves the child who is born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world: your faith.
I have just one problem with what you summerize below:
So now what is a Non-Jew who comes to believe in the Yahshuah Mashiach the Son? I would say they are part of Israel if they obey what was Instructed by YHWH.
Death bed converstion or acceptance. No time to follow written law, no time for baptism, no time to make ammends - just acceptance of Christ, then death. I believe the Lord accepts such a person into Heaven as Christ is the Law fulfilled.