God will Save ALL - Even those considered unorthodox by many denominations

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FineLinen

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Letalis said:
I believe all who come to Christ will be in heaven. All who don't come to Christ will, unfortunately, burn in hell.

God is not only love, he is just also.

I don't really understand how you guys can think that everyone will be in heaven. It doesn't make sense to me. What would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins? He didn't need to go through all that pain and torture. It was all for nothing. He didn't need to give us laws, because we don't need to follow them. I might as well become an atheist, make millions of dollars, and ruin the world. It doesn't really matter in the end. I'll still make it into heaven. Maybe I'll see Satan there too!! WAHOO!!! PARTYYYY
Letalis: Our Lord declares that in Adam we have all been "made sinners." That same little group are also to be "made righteous." If you think for a nano-second the Author of Rectitude is throwing a party, guess again!

"Therefore as by the offence of the one, judgement came upon all mankind to condemnation;

even so

By the righeousness of One the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life.

For as through the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were made sinners/ kathistemi hamartolos,

so also

Through the obedience of One, the mass of mankind will be made righteous/ kathistemi dikaios."


Kathistemi Hamartolos=

To constitute/ to render/ to make/ to cause to be devoted to sin.

A sinner, not free from sin/ pre-eminently sinful and especially wicked.

Kathistemi Dikaios=

To constitute/ to render/ to make/ to cause to be righteous.

Observing divine laws/ innocent/ faultess/ guiltless.

One whose way of thinking, feeling & acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore is in need of no further rectification of being.

Justice by George MacDonald

http://www.ccel.org/m/macdonald/unspoken3/unspoken3.htm
 
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GodsWatchman

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Acts 10:14-16 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Done TWICE for emphasis -

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

any man - no man - none not effected

common - probably from 4862; common, i.e. (literally) shared by all or several, or (ceremonially) profane:

unclean - from 1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of 2508 (meaning cleansed); impure (ceremonially, morally (lewd) or specially, (demonic)):

Another one for the Glory of God - that All men are CLEANSED in Christ - It is only the manifestation that we await - whether it be in this life - or in that Glorious 2nd resurrection ... it will be manifest.
 
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GodsWatchman

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What is the Motives for our acts of righteousness. It is MOTIVE that matters. It is MOTIVE that God looks at. Motive is the Mobile force within our spirit that driives us to our deeds. It is not the deed itself, but the reason behind it.

Joshua 6:25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

Rahab LIED about those spies - but her MOTIVE was accounted to her as righteous. What is your motive? Why do you do or not do what you do?

Is it HELL ? Or is it Love ?

I can tell you - Love is the harder work. For in Love you are FREE. And with that freedom comes the TRUTH of your heart. You 'motives' inside you must now be REPAIRED to align with the MOTIVES of God.

logos log'-os - from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):

You see - He is the MOTIVE (logos). We need Him as our MOTIVATOR within us. Not FEAR. For perfect love cast out all TORMENT (hell). I wish to share with others that they no longer need to live a "plastic" attempt at righteousness out of FEAR OF HELL - But can OVERCOME this by living in LOVE and FREEDOM -

1 John 4:18 There is no fear <phobos> in <en> love <agape>; but perfect <teleios> love <agape> casteth <ballo> out <exo> fear <phobos>: because fear <phobos> hath <echo> torment <kolasis>. He that feareth <phobeo> is <teleioo> not made perfect <teleioo> in <en> love <agape>.

God will, through time and patience, show you your true MOTIVES within your spirit - which you can take hold of and DISPOSE of in Him.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the MOTIVE, and the MOTIVE was with God, and the MOTIVE was God.

When we reliquish our MOTIVES to Him (our Pride) - We can be with God.
 
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saltoearth

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Letalis said:
I believe all who come to Christ will be in heaven. All who don't come to Christ will, unfortunately, burn in hell.

God is not only love, he is just also.

I don't really understand how you guys can think that everyone will be in heaven. It doesn't make sense to me. What would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins? He didn't need to go through all that pain and torture. It was all for nothing. He didn't need to give us laws, because we don't need to follow them. I might as well become an atheist, make millions of dollars, and ruin the world. It doesn't really matter in the end. I'll still make it into heaven. Maybe I'll see Satan there too!! WAHOO!!! PARTYYYY

Your post does an incredible job in summing up the way most Chirstians think. It is a thought process which we are taught by man and not the Word.

The fear of God

The fear of God is like the law it has a purpose, a specific use, but cannot bring you into complete subjection to God. The law was our schoolmaster, our tutor or sorts which told us explicitly that WE NEED MERCY, i.e. Jesus. Likewise, it is the condemnation brought about by the law which cause us to FEAR GOD'S JUDGEMENT. However we MUST NOT stay in this state of mind. The fear of Judgement must bring us to repentance (a change of heart). This change of heart is God's Spirit working miracles of grace and salvation in you. If we still fear God you are not perfected by His love. John's first epistle exhorts us to cast out fear.

Our motive to obey God is what? Fear (of judgement, hell, suffering, humilation,) or Love (for Christ from Christ)? God does not love us BECAUSE we love Him, yet we love Him because he loves us. The majority of man hates God, does not know God, yet he loves them REGARDLESS. It is what a friend of mine calls "inspite of not because of". Now if the love of God can transform you and me and so many other wretches, why do we resist God's love for the REST OF MANKIND God's CREATION. God has not created man in vain. God said it was Good and it will be manifested in due time. Love conquers all, death will be defeated. Eternal hell fire is death winning and God whimpering.


From here I would like to break you post down sentence by sentence and respond

I believe all who come to Christ will be in heaven. All who don't come to Christ will, unfortunately, burn in hell

The scriptures says ALL will be come to Christ
John
12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

John
15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

God is not only love, he is just also.

Can you picture God saying, 'this is a real bummer guys, I just hate doing this but you'll have to spend eternity in a unfathomable torment'
The thing is, that is not what GOD WANTS, that is what Man wants.

Jer 19:5 - Show Context
They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

not only that but check out these two scriptures
Eph
1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
2 Peter
3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance

Part of the mystery of God's will is changing all of mankind. He is not willing that ANY should perish, but ALL should come to repentance. If God is not willing for anyone to perish in some type of awful hellfire who do you think is going to overide his will? Satan? Will satan be victorious? Is that how the book ends? No, of course not ALL things will be made NEW, and the FORMER things will pass away, there will be no more tears and that means no more torment. Remember when Jesus said "weeping and knashing of teeth" obviously this cannot exist in eternity.

Do you understand the difference between Mercy and Justice?
Do you know that Justice is part of THE LAW and was nailed to the Cross. Christ received the JUSTICE of the whole world, he carried the very penalty for sin DEATH. And by His stripes we are healed. Did you know that God wants MERCY and not sacrifice (justice). If two things can't co exist eternally it's mercy and justice, they just clash like no tomorrow. Mercy is going to last longer than the energizer bunny, check this verse out.

Psalms
86:5
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee
Phil 2:10-11
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Knowtise that it does not say every knee shall go limp in fear of hellfire and every head shall duck from lightening bolts of terror.

The Glory of God is his Son Jesus Christ, Jesus is the Mercy. God does not need to beat people up for eternity to get glory like a teenage bully. God wants us to LOVE him for who he is

What would be the point of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins? He didn't need to go through all that pain and torture. It was all for nothing.

Let me ask you this. Does it make any logical sense in the human mind for someone you don't even know, who you hate, to love you enough to bare the penalty of every evil thought and action of your life? That would be insane wouldn't it!!! That would be FOOLISH right?
1 Cor
1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

How can you think that it was all for nothing? Baring the sins of the whole world, to save each and every one of us, how is that all for nothing. IT's so big I can't even begin to fathom it, my own sin is daunting enough

I might as well become an atheist, make millions of dollars, and ruin the world. It doesn't really matter in the end. I'll still make it into heaven

So you are telling me that, if it didn't matter what you did in this life in regards to your salvation you would live lasciviously? So what you are saying then is that all your 'good works' are done in a constant state of fear, that you really don't keep the commandments of Christ because you love him, but because you fear eternal bloody torment. That is a sick relationship to have with your loving Lord and Savior.

Here is the best reason the WORD has for NOT living in Sin

love

if that isn't enough reason then you don't have enough love

Maybe I'll see Satan there too!!

What is it about Mercy that the carnal man hates so much?

ohhh I know...PRIDE.
 
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GodsWatchman

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Psalms 111:10 The beginning of wisdom is fear of Jehovah, Good understanding have all doing them, His praise is standing for ever!

These are the steps - We *START* with fear (respect and awe) of God. Then ...

1 Corinthians 13:11-13 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known. But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

I am afraid the spiritual growth of many may be "stymied" by the church authorities. For this reason - they are BOUND by the strong man.

When Jesus binds that strong man from your mind - then you are free. Free to understand the LOVE of God and His Mysteries ... Mysteries which are freely given to the free and withheld from Agars children.
 
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GodsWatchman

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G4m said:
[bible]Jonah 4:1-3[/bible]
1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. 2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil. 3 Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live.

Did we miss the parable of Death here?

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose (SOUL) it: and he that loseth his life(SOUL) for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mark 9:26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

ect..
 
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disciple00

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i feel i have somewhat to add here concerning mankind and their disobediance>

jeremiah 10-23 ''O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. 24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.''

1 peter 2-7 ''Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.''

Ephesians 1:11 ''In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:''

Romans 9:16 ''So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy''

john 10:17 ''Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.''

john 10:26 ''But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.''

john 10:35 ''If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;''

Romans 8:20 ''For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.''

chronicals 20:6 ''And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?''

anyhow, my driving point with all this is that God indeed does all things after his own council, Gods will is supreme, and it cannot be overcome. God is the one who saves, who then can escape gods grasp?

amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: 3 And though they hide themselves in the top of Carmel, I will search and take them out thence; and though they be hid from my sight in the bottom of the sea, thence will I command the serpent, and he shall bite them:

hey salty, read amos chapter nine, have watchman do it too, i think you'll get a kick out of it

and one final question, didn't God give jesus power over all flesh?
John 17:1-5 ''1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.''

disciple00
 
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GodsWatchman

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disciple00 said:
John 17:1-5 ''1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.''

This is such a REFRESHING and VITALIZING verse. Truley these things have been hidden from the 'wise'. He is my Rest in ALL THINGS - Not just my own salvation (toWit I would give to another if I could) - But for the salvation of ALL FLESH to be In Him - to become one with the Father even as He is One.
 
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shawn_h76

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Hello,

Im sorry, i have to admit, i didn't read the whole thread.
Not everybody will be saved. :cry::cry:

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
And how do you overcome, by the blood of Jesus.

Now, everybody who has ever lived their names are written in the book of life.
When you die without Jesus, your name is blotted out. When you ask Jesus into your heart, your name is sealed and will never be blotted out.

Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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GodsWatchman

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shawn_h76 said:
Im sorry, i have to admit, i didn't read the whole thread.

shawn_h76 said:
Not everybody will be saved.
Really? Strange that God would hold something against them when the debt has been paid
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Such a strange thing for John to say - don't ya think?

shawn_h76 said:
Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
And how do you overcome, by the blood of Jesus.
And *ALL* of Gods creation WILL OVERCOME because it is His will that it be so!

1 Timothy 2:2-4 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Philippians 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Who can thwart the will of God? Man?

Isaiah 29:16 Ye turn things upside down! Shall the potter be esteemed as clay; that the thing made should say of him that made it, He made me not; or the thing formed say of him that formed it, He hath no understanding?

shawn_h76 said:
Now, everybody who has ever lived their names are written in the book of life.
Not that I can contest this - but did you just make it up? Got scripture to support it?

shawn_h76 said:
When you die without Jesus, your name is blotted out.
Really? When you die IN THE FLESH? Do you know what Gods Judgements are when put to the earth?

Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

shawn_h76 said:
When you ask Jesus into your heart, your name is sealed and will never be blotted out.
This is a contradiction to your assertion concerning "He that overcometh". Which is it? Simply ask him into your heart or OVERCOME ? And the list of things to overcome in the letter to the churches is pretty hefty. See - you can't have it both ways. UNLESS! UNLESS - His Blood covers ALL SIN - WHOLE WORLD - ALL FLESH. I could paste another 100 verses from the Word of God to show you - but this was already done from the start of this thread. Do yourself a favor and go back and read the thread.

shawn_h76 said:
Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Don't you know that you are "in the Lake of Fire" right now?? Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

In this age - on this earth - Christians who are CALLED BY GOD first : are being SALTED WITH HIM. For God is an all-consuming fire!

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Malachi 3:2-3 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Daniel 3:23-25 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Luke 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

_________________________________________________

Enough of this. I'll tell you what Shawn - I don't believe that you believe what you say you believe. Got any friends or relatives that don't believe? Do you? How can you rest Shawn, knowing they are to be tormented for ETERNITY? Hmmm? I think those that "preach this" are FOOLING THEMSELVES. Why not devote every single last moment of your life - every living second to SAVE that one from that ETERNAL TORMENT? No TV - No reading on this forum - Nothing - nothing but pure efforts to SAVE that one. Oh, you might say, "he is blind I cannot lead such a blind one to Christ". Or perhaps you might say "God has not called him". What will you say Shawn? How can you claim to have Sabbath/Rest in Him when you KNOW those you love are HEADED TO ETERNAL TORMENT? Are you praying for them? Are your prayers then NOT HEARD because they show no response to the Son of God? Should we make void the verse:
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Or you may say that it isn't aligned with the Will of God? "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." ...neah can't be that either.

Personally - I could not rest. I would be IN THE TORMENT NOW for them. I would CRY MY EYES OUT DAY AND NIGHT. Are you not CRYING? Have you no pity? If you could give your salvation to a loved one - a TRADE - would you? Is that not the very expression of Christ?

No - I say no, you do NOT REALLY BELIEVE what you say you do. Search out the Mind of Christ. Read HIM - you will see that He is the IMAGE OF GOD and He LOVES HIS ENEMIES! He has MERCY ON THE MASSES. Put on the Whole Mind of Christ and don't listen the harlot. She sits upon a great mountain - Proverbs 30:20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

She has many daughters indeed. And she has mixed her wine. She is carnal. She cannot "see" the Spirit of God because of her selfishness. And God will Judge her with LIGHT. She will be EXPOSED for her nakedness. If you come out of ... you will see. See the Light and Love of God through Jesus in REALITY - not just in "dead letter text". Put off the OldTestament man - put off that carnality:

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The Old Testament can be found in the New by "patching" that old wine skin :
Mark 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred (apollumi,DEATH,PERISH): but new wine must be put into new bottles.

We are that bottle/skinBag. And and we cannot keep our Old Testament man and have the New Testament man as well. For by the Law is death. But the Spirit of Truth is LIFE NOW. When you can "see this" - you will then understand the SPIRIT OF THE WORD and be able to OVERCOME THE LETTER. Until you OVERCOME THAT LETTER - Thats all you will see -> DEATH DEATH DEATH.

The spirit will show you that Death is LIFE indeed!

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Matthew 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose (SOUL) it: and he that loseth his life(SOUL) for my sake shall find it.
Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:4-9 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

You see Death. I see LIFE. And Life for all His Creation - not just a few. For it is God who CHOOSES when for each man. Some during this earth age. Some in the next. This MUST be so because His word is PRECISE on this matter in too many places. Far too many to assume that "all doesn't mean all" "tasted death for every man doesn't mean every man" "all of creation doesn't mean all of creation" "every knee means by force". It is SHE who is lying to you. Not I. Stop listening to her.
 
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shawn_h76

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Although, i did enjoy reading your post, i want you to explain to me what these verses mean....

matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

revelation 20: 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
So now we see the lake of fire is an actual place.
(v.15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark 16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. damned to what?

John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

saved from what?


Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Why didn't paul say, you are already saved?

galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


please explain how you veiw those verse. Thank you.
 
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disciple00

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shawn_h76 said:
Hello,

Im sorry, i have to admit, i didn't read the whole thread.
Not everybody will be saved. :cry::cry:

Revelation 3
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
And how do you overcome, by the blood of Jesus.

Now, everybody who has ever lived their names are written in the book of life.
When you die without Jesus, your name is blotted out. When you ask Jesus into your heart, your name is sealed and will never be blotted out.

Revelation 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

an interesting point you are trying to make, but please read john 16:33 ''These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.'' then read 1 john 5:4 ''For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?''

now read job 12:16
''With him (God) is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his''

now read john 6:37 ''All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.''

now read john 17:2 ''As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.''
now read john 6:40 ''And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.''

now read matthew 24:30 ''And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.''

you see watchman is not disputing that without Christ there can be no redemption, watchman is asserting that Christ came to save sinners, and well jesus said ''I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do'' when praying to God his father. why then don't we believe that jesus saved the sinners? thats what he came to do and he did finish his work. all things belong to God and God gave all things to Christ, and if God gave all things to Christ, then jesus shall loose nothing of all things.. (well thats what jesus said anyhow, perhaps you should take it up with him) do you understand?
remember that christians must walk by faith, and certainly it would seem that this world is going to hell, but we must believe God promises of salvation over what we see.

p.s. i have now been told to change my christian icon because i made a comment about the trinity doctrine, i refused to change it so now the pharasies will ''warn'' me... hmm too bad they can't do me a real faver as cast real stones.. it's about time we had some purifyin fire in the usa, our faith here is getting awfully dirty....
love you all

disciple00
 
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Motus

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FineLinen said:
God's Watchman, greetings in the Lord of triumph. You posted...



Our Lord places the identical individuals in the Last Adam as the first. His triumph is in stages of glory beginning with the first-fruits of His grace, the in-Christed ones and moving to every knee bowing and every tonque confessing in the name of Jesus. The confession is not by perfunctory genuflections, but rather, in the Name of Jesus by homologeo and exomologeo and the subjection is identical to what the Saviour of the holos kosmos expressed when He subjects Himself by hupotasso to the Father. Keep up the good work, you just never know, our Father still opens blinds eyes and deaf ears!

LOL Does this paragraph illuminate the truth or attempt to obscure it with bewildering verbiage?
 
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GodsWatchman

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shawn_h76 said:
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

Hi Shawn - Currently I'm going to HUGE TRYING times in my life. So my brief answer to this is:

Everlast=Age Enduring. NOT ETERNITY. Its the time of an age only. There were ages gone past - age that now is - ages to come. The greek word is aeon and means an AGE - not ETERNITY. Check out Youngs Literal Translation.

Oh - one more thing. What does "DAMNation" mean? - Clue - We "Dam" up water. We Stop it. It doesn't mean ETERNAL TORMENT :)

God Bless
 
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