Calvinism... Discussion of Doctrine?

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drstevej

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."
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CCWoody said:
I used to be one of 4 Calvinist in my secret cult. Unfortunately, I'm running out of non-Calvinists to convert. My online email group is now down to two and I'm looking for fresh victims, er I mean opportunities.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

I think it is your charm that is irresistable. Is Grace your middle name?

Charis (Grace) begins with a "C" you know.

drstevej
 
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nyj

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CCWoody said:
I will continue to wait for your official declaration that the anyone who denies the "Real Presence" in the Eucharist really doesn't mean anyone, but only a specific group of people.

As you will see by the below quote, an anathema, which incurs excommunication, is a medicinal Church penalty. It applies specifically to members who have, at one point benefitted from full communion with the Catholic Church. One cannot excommunicate someone who has never been Catholic, it is illogical.

Neither excommunication nor anathemas imply the Church's condemning anyone to hell. That is the prerogative of God alone. Excommunication is a Church law, excluding a notorious sinner from the communion of the faithful (Canons 2257-2267). Its purpose is to warn the sinner of the danger he runs of incurring eternal ruin, unless he repent of his sin. The "delivering of the sinner to Satan," which we find in the Roman Pontifical, is based on the words of St. Paul, who delivered the incestuous sinner to Satan, "that his spirit might be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 5:5; cf. 1 Tim. 1:20). - Bertrand L. Conway, The Question Box, New York: The Paulist Press (A Catholic Publishing Company), 1929 (33 years before Vatican II began), page 205.

This will be my last post on this issue as it has the words "stumbling block" written all over it, however I will leave the following link which has a discussion on the meaning of the word "anathema" and how it applies to Trent and excommunications in general.

Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong discusses anathemas.

Post Script: Taken from the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium

14. This holy Council first of all turns its attention to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it.

Fully incorporated into the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who--by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion--are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but "in body" not "in heart.''[12] All children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be the more severely judged.[13]

Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, desire with an explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church, are by that very intention joined to her. With love and solicitude mother Church already embraces them as her own.

15. The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.[14] For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honor as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour,[15] who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion of the Virgin Mother of God.
 
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drstevej

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Miss Shelby said:
Catholics have told you that what was said at Trent does not apply to Protestants who have been protestants all of their lives, but to the original Reformers who broke away from the Church.

Michelle

CANON XVII.-If any one saith , that the grace of Justification is only attained to by those who are predestined unto life; but that all others who are called, are called indeed, but receive not grace, as being, by the divine power, predestined unto evil; let him be anathema.

The documents repeatedly address this to anyone. If there was an expiration date what is to be thought of people who later hold these views?
 
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rnmomof7

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CCWoody said:
No, this is one of the Tenets of Christendom everywhere. This is not a Calvinist invention of the last 500 years as you seem to suggest.

So, as you seem to be exposing yourself as something other than a Christian, I will again ask that you provide all of us with your denomination and a statement of your beliefs.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.

I believe that his church holds many non traditional beliefs
 
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CCWoody

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rnmomof7 said:
I believe that his church holds many non traditional beliefs

The problem here is that Silver Surfer seems to be telling all of us that the belief that people will be burned forever in Hell is a false belief. He, in error, attributes this teaching only to Calvinists, but the real problem here is that this is the heretical teaching of Universalism.

This is clearly non-Christian and risks the curses of the Book of Revelation.

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.


Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Son of man, how is the wood of the vine better than any other wood, the vine branch which is among the trees of the forest? Is wood taken from it to make any object? Or can men make a peg from it to hang any vessel on? Instead, it is thrown into the fire for fuel; the fire devours both ends of it, and its middle is burned. Is it useful for any work? Indeed, when it was whole, no object could be made from it. How much less will it be useful for any work when the fire has devoured it, and it is burned? ~ Ezekiel 15
 
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Greeter

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Miss Shelby said:
The entirety of quote totally changes the perspective and the meaning, AND Catholics have told you that what was said at Trent does not apply to Protestants who have been protestants all of their lives, but to the original Reformers who broke away from the Church. If that isn't enough... so be it.

Michelle

Hold up a second, you aren't telling us everything either. Above you are saying that "Protestants who have been protestants all of their lives" are not guilty, but you haven't mentioned anything about those Protestants who started out as being Catholic. Why do you need to have the line "who have been protestants all of their lives" in there unless something else is expected of Protestants who started out as Catholics?

Is there something that you aren't telling us? Or are all Protestants equally protected?
 
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Greeter

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Miss Shelby said:
How was that an attack Greeter? :confused:

Michelle

Oh, I'm sorry, telling someone that it is too easy for them to focus on the negative is a compliment?

Try saying it a different way and maybe I will understand it better.
 
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