August 7, 2003??

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parousia70 said:
Just so I am clear, Are you asserting that Isaiah 13:10 was indeed fulfilled on May 31st of this year, or are you merely speculating?

Speculation, of course.

I am just using this as an example that, if it were a fulfillment and at a later date we came to this realization, we would have become first hand witnesses to the fact that many prophecies pass with few, if any, realizing it AT THE TIME of the event.

For example, the "day of the Lord" in Isaiah could be taken as a 24 hour period, a 12 hour period, or any number of hours more or less, or maybe even a period of time extended more than 24 hours. Maybe even days or weeks or months.

If you expect it to be 24 hours or less, then the eclipse is meaningless. But, if it WERE a greater period of time (days, weeks, months), then one may have discarded an event of significance due to an incorrect interpretation.
 
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parousia70

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cbk said:
Speculation, of course.

I am just using this as an example that, if it were a fulfillment and at a later date we came to this realization, we would have become first hand witnesses to the fact that many prophecies pass with few, if any, realizing it AT THE TIME of the event.

For example, the "day of the Lord" in Isaiah could be taken as a 24 hour period, a 12 hour period, or any number of hours more or less, or maybe even a period of time extended more than 24 hours. Maybe even days or weeks or months.

If you expect it to be 24 hours or less, then the eclipse is meaningless. But, if it WERE a greater period of time (days, weeks, months), then one may have discarded an event of significance due to an incorrect interpretation.

OK.
I agree that, biblically speaking, the "day of the Lord" is not to be understood as a 24 hour period. In fact I do not believe any of the past "day of the lord" events in scripture took place in under 24 hours.

My understanding, however, is that Isaiah 13 is a prophesy about, and was fulfilled when Medeo-persia destroyed Babylon in the 6th century BC:

Isaiah 13:17
Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.


Are you saying Isaiah 13 is instead a prophesy about the "Last Days"?
If so, where do you get that?
 
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parousia70 said:
OK.
Are you saying Isaiah 13 is instead a prophesy about the "Last Days"?
If so, where do you get that?


Matthew 24:29(a) "Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light'"

Granted, you may be correct that Isaiah has been fulfilled, but the sign of Matthew is similar to Isaiah, and, according to Jesus, is destined to happen.
 
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lambslove said:
August 7th? Bring it on!

Maybe we should spend more of the last weeks on earth trying to reach the unreached and less discussing dates on this website?


No offense, but how do you know if many of us do not try to Reach the unreached in other aspects of our lives apart from this forum.

Your bibles for Africa program is very noble and God will bless you for your efforts, but please don't ask some of us to spend MORE time on 'reaching' when many of the threads which YOU have started (and participated in) have absolutely nothing to do with 'reaching' the unreached.

You appear to be using a double standard.
 
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parousia70

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cbk said:
Matthew 24:29(a) "Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light'"

Granted, you may be correct that Isaiah has been fulfilled, but the sign of Matthew is similar to Isaiah, and, according to Jesus, is destined to happen.

The sun darkening, moon blackening, Heavens disolving, stars falling, etc, according to the OT prophets, ocourred repeatedly throughout history, coincident with Real Judgements against nations.

Isaiah 13 is not a prophesy about the universe, but about the destruction of Babylon at the hands of medeo-persia in the 6th century BC.

The language is indeed similar to Matt 24, but they do not speak of the same event.
 
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parousia70 said:
The sun darkening, moon blackening, Heavens disolving, stars falling, etc, according to the OT prophets, ocourred repeatedly throughout history, coincident with Real Judgements against nations.

Isaiah 13 is not a prophesy about the universe, but about the destruction of Babylon at the hands of medeo-persia in the 6th century BC.

The language is indeed similar to Matt 24, but they do not speak of the same event.

Granted, they do not. But still, this goes back to the possibility that the eclipse on May 31, 2003 was a fulfillment of Matthew 24(a), but we do not realize it. I'm not saying that the eclipse IS a fulfillment, just that it is possible that it was. And, if it were, then it would be an example of how prophecies pass with few if any fully realizing it at the time.

Many believe that when the signs of the seven seals and seven trumpets happen that they will be OBVIOUS for those who witness them. I disagree, and was just trying to show examples of how this could be true.

Another example, apart from an eclipse, would be the sign of the virgin birth that was known by approximately .0000001% of the population of the time. Or the time of the triumphal entry which was known by appoximately .0000001% of the population of that time. Why do so many of those who believe that we will be on earth to endure the seals and trumpets think that this will be OBVIOUS when they happen???
 
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parousia70

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I think I understand what you are getting at.
What I would be curious about is the Biblical precident for it.

Is there any biblical record, that you are aware of, of any prophesy being fulfilled without an infallible declaration "at the time" of it's fulfillment?

To my knowledge, whenever a prophesy is fulfilled, God always provides an infallible declaration of it's fulfillment, at the time of it's fulfiullment.

For me to accept the possibility that prophesy is being fulfilled without such declarations, I would need to see some biblical precident. Wouldn't you?
 
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parousia70 said:
I think I understand what you are getting at.
What I would be curious about is the Biblical precident for it.

Is there any biblical record, that you are aware of, of any prophesy being fulfilled without an infallible declaration "at the time" of it's fulfillment?

To my knowledge, whenever a prophesy is fulfilled, God always provides an infallible declaration of it's fulfillment, at the time of it's fulfiullment.

For me to accept the possibility that prophesy is being fulfilled without such declarations, I would need to see some biblical precident. Wouldn't you?

We must remember, that when infallible declarations were given, these people were oft either thought of as 'quacks' by the majority to the point of their words being silenced -- thus denying but a few the opportunity of even hearing the declaration.

For example:

1) Apart from your knowledge of history, where in scripture was it ANNOUNCED that Isaiah's Chapter 13 was fulfilled in 6 B.C. When and where was this announced?

Granted, an infallible declaration may be made to a chosen handful, like the shepherds when Christ was born. But how much time had to pass before this DECLARATION made it to the large population???? 33 years?? 40??? And how many years had to pass before it was believed??

What if God had announced that the May 31st eclipse was the fulfillment of Matthew 24 to a handful of the population? How much time would have to pass before it would be accepted as truth?? Or, how much time would have to pass before the majority of the world would even come to the knowledge that such a declaration was even made by these few people? Wouldn't you agree that the majority would scoff??

My point is that the announcement is not accepted or known until it is too late. The announcers are discredit, scoffed, silenced, until all is fulfilled. Then, in retrospect, people believe. This may be a costly mistake concerning the "end time" signs.

Now, in regards to Revelation, I do not believe it necessary that an announcement be made every time a seal is opened or a trumpet is blown or a vial is poured. But, even if the announcement was made, it would not surprise me if that knowledge never reached my ears. In fact, it would surprise me the most if it did!
 
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parousia70 Is there any biblical record said:
I believe here are a few.

Malachi 4:5 --- Those who were following John BEFORE Jesus' announcement had no clue at the time. And, if they were, I am not aware of it, which is just as sad.

Hosea 11:1 --- was fulfilled when Jesus and his family left Egypt and returned to Judea. -- This prophecy was not announced as being fulfilled AT the time that it happened that I am aware of. And, if it was announced at the time, I am not aware of it.

Isaiah 40:3 --- was fulfilled by John the Baptist, but when was this announced? And to whom? I do not believe knowledge of this fulfillment was known about until AFTER Matthew 3:3. Which was well after John's death! Too little, too late for those who doubted John.

Isaiah 9:12 -- was announced as being fulfilled in Matthew 4:15 which was written WELL AFTER the event. I am not aware of it being announced as being fulfilled prior to this. Yet, even if this prophecy was announced as being fulfilled at the time (of which I seriously doubt), I am not surprised that word didn't travel far.

And, in regards to Revelation, I would not be surprised that if the first seven seals were opened that we would not come to the knowledge until much later in time -- basically, unknowing witnesses. Consider that those who listened to John didn't know that Isaiah 40:3 was being fulfilled while they were there -- they were unknowing witnesses for a time. Like people in a caravan or those who welcomed Joseph home to Nazareth didn't know that Hosea 11:1 was being fulfilled when Jesus came to their town from Egypt despite the fact that they were there -- they were unknowing witnesses.

Do you see my point? These were not announced as fulfillments of prophecy until WELL after the fact.
 
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nephilimiyr

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It has already been proven that our calendar today is off by several years and there is no real way with certainty what year were in right now. 32 A.D. could have been actually 25 A.D. instead of our year being 2003 we could actually be in year 1995 or could be 2000. The fact of the matter is no one knows.
 
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nephilimiyr said:
It has already been proven that our calendar today is off by several years and there is no real way with certainty what year were in right now. 32 A.D. could have been actually 25 A.D. instead of our year being 2003 we could actually be in year 1995 or could be 2000. The fact of the matter is no one knows.


That is interesting. I am aware of the loss of a few days that was mandated to adjust for the error of the Julian calendar when we converted to the Gregorian calendar, but where did you find that there may be a gap of 'years' which could have occured between 32AD and 2003AD? And which centuries did these gaps occur in?
 
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jayswife29

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I dont believe either that we will necessarily "know" if we are living through a prophetic time until it is too late, I dont know if the eclipse had some sort of prophetic significance, I dont know for a fact that I will or will not be here during any of the tribulation, all I really know(I think!!!) is that we are probably living in a crucial time in history, and I would like some one who believes that we will live through the trib explain to me how they figure we will be "sealed"through it. How do we know that August seventh is NOT an important day biblically, how do we know that the road-map for peace isnt the beginning stages of the tribulation? Truthfully, although prophecy is my favorite subject, I am starting to get a little nervous thinking that the end could be so near, and alot of people are just oblivious to the fact. And how can Mars be the closest its ever been in 57,000 years when I dont even believe the earth is half that age? How can people who say they believe the bible think the earth is that old, doesnt anyone ask their pastors or leaders to show them the generations from the beginning until now? I dont think its been that many.
 
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parousia70

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cbk said:
Do you see my point? These were not announced as fulfillments of prophecy until WELL after the fact.

I do see your point! Thank you for your those scriptures!

I guess my main concern is who today is qulaifed to declare any given event as the fulfillment of prophesy?

In scripture, there was always a living voice raised up by God to declare such, but I find no one qulaified today. Everyone seems to be at odds on which event fulfilled what, yet in scripture, there is always someone qualified.

See my point?
 
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parousia70 said:
I do see your point! Thank you for your those scriptures!

I guess my main concern is who today is qulaifed to declare any given event as the fulfillment of prophesy?

In scripture, there was always a living voice raised up by God to declare such, but I find no one qulaified today. Everyone seems to be at odds on which event fulfilled what, yet in scripture, there is always someone qualified.

See my point?

The qualified ones in scripture who announced the fulfillment were discredited because they were not CONSIDERED "qualified".

Look at Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Who were these during THEIR day and time??? I believe they were considered a bunch of nobodies!!! Yes, WE hold them in esteem TODAY, but only because, through the passage of time, they were PROVEN right to those who believe. Why, even now, the Jewish community do not hold these four in high esteem because they do not believe what has been said.

Remember, it wasn't Caiphas who made the announcements. Or a king. Or another significant person that anyone of that day would accept as 'credible'. Sometime, it seems, God used others, of lesser value in the eyes of the WORLD to announce the fulfillment of prophecy.

Look at the shepherds who, probably, announced to the community that the Christ was born. Of what value were they to the Jewish nation? Very little?

Sadly, if I lived during the time of these fulfillments, I would most CERTAINLY have doubts. Maybe to the point of following the mainstream in disbelief (if I heard) or to the point of not even hearing the announcements to begin with because the announcement never made it far during the short passage of time that happened.

If someone were to make endtime claims today, I would take them with a BIG grain of salt, but I would not discredit them outright because they do not SEEM to be qualified in the eyes of man.

And, I believe 99.999999% of us would do the same.

Therefore, I can definately see that prophecy could easily pass us by with few, if any,of us realizing them until AFTER the fact. Few would hear if a pronouncement was made. Few would believe it even if they DID hear. And others would take the pronouncement with a grain of salt -- I am one of these.... I hope.

The fear of believing is oft based on the fear of being wrong.

Or, at least, I think. :clap:
 
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cbk said:
That is interesting. I am aware of the loss of a few days that was mandated to adjust for the error of the Julian calendar when we converted to the Gregorian calendar, but where did you find that there may be a gap of 'years' which could have occured between 32AD and 2003AD? And which centuries did these gaps occur in?

I really shouldn't have used the term "proven" but it is a fact that historians don't actually know the real day or hour we're in right now. The reason for this is that errors were made during the middle ages with the calendar thus we're no longer sure just exactly what the actual year is.

The best guess of our real date can be found by figuring the date of the death of King Herod The Great. The writer Josephus said that Herod became sick following his final act of impiety during an eclipse of the moon. Because the time of a lunar eclipse can be calculated very precisely, don't ask me how, it is possible to discover that the one Josephus described must have occurred on March 13th in the Julian calendar year of 4710. If so, this would place King Herod's death at around 4 BC. Some historians disagree with this and place the date at 6 BC.

Now since the Bible tells us that Jesus was born before Herods death, that would mean that our current calendar date is actually behind by several years, not just several days. Plus even if what I said is proven without a doubt we still don't know the actual age of Jesus when Herod died thus no one knows when Jesus was actually born and that's what our calendar is based on isn't it?

Anyway my main point in bringing this up is that I believe it's pointless to be playing date and number games because we can't be sure of what our actual date is. Now maybe this theory of August 7th 2003 is right, and you've done a great job of spelling it out I may add, but it would really do us no good as we aren't sure when August 7th 2003 will come or even perhaps it already past us!?!? For all we know we are actually on the date of July 17th, 1998, do you understand what I'm saying? If the theory can be proven then it can only show that time is fast running out for this day and age which I think the majority of us already believe.
 
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nephilimiyr said:
Anyway my main point in bringing this up is that I believe it's pointless to be playing date and number games because we can't be sure of what our actual date is. Now maybe this theory of August 7th 2003 is right, and you've done a great job of spelling it out I may add, but it would really do us no good as we aren't sure when August 7th 2003 will come or even perhaps it already past us!?!? For all we know we are actually on the date of July 17th, 1998, do you understand what I'm saying? If the theory can be proven then it can only show that time is fast running out for this day and age which I think the majority of us already believe.

I see your point. Interesting.
 
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Yekcidmij

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Could August 7, 2003 hold any significance to the book of Revelation??

1) August 7, 2003 is Tisha B'Av. This is the day that the first Temple and the second Temples were destroyed by the Babylonians and Romans, respectively. It is a day of MOURNING for the Jewish peoples.
Very, very significant times.

2) It is exactly 720,000 days after one of the three most likely days for Christ's crucifixion -- April 10, 32AD. In other words, between April 10, 32AD and August 7, 2003, there will have passed 720,000 days. Maybe a very, very significant time.

3) 720,000 days are equal to 2000 'daniel' or 'prophecy' years. In other words, if you take 720,000 days and divide them by 360 days (in a prophecy year), you will have 2000 prophecy years.

4) 2000 'daniel' years is a nice round number, but it is equal to 40 X 50. 50 is the number of years that must pass for a Jubilee according to the Old Testament, therefore, at the end of 2000 years, we will be celebrating the 40th JUBILEE!

Could the 40th jubilee of Christ's death mean anything? I do not know. But, the Old Testament was a shadow of things to come, and many events in the Old Testament were put there to symbolically represent what was to take place in the future.

The nation of Israel was freed from slavery and spent 40 years wandering through the desert because they did not do as God willed. Jesus was in the desert for 40 days.

Now, Jesus was crucified when the Jews had the opportunity to accept him when he made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. They did not accept him, therefore, the world now has to wait, or wander, until the faithful can inherit the greatest reward. Just like the Jews in the wilderness.

How long must the world wander?? 40??

Also note that a jubilee is a year for slaves being made free!!! Read Leviticus 25:8- for more info on the year of jubilee.

August 7, 2003 --- a day of mourning for some based on the events of the past. Could it be again for some?



***Checkes calendar.***


Oops!
 
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