Once Saved Always Saved??

Once Saved, Always Saved??

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JohnR7

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The Story Teller said:
Once Saved Always Saved??

What are your thoughts?

I think we were saved, we are being saved and we will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
 
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Wypadek

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Defiantely! All I have to say is that if it wasn't true, being Christian wouldn't be WORTH it! Well, maybe it would, but it would be like, 'oh dang it, I messed up bad today, so I'm not saved, gotta make up for it tomorrow' and the 'okay, I'm saved today' that would NOT be kosher
 
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PuppyforChrist

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I always thought that if you were a Christian in your early life, then one day you suddenly decide you don't want him anymore and push God away from your life. Then you are no longer a Christian until you say the Sinner's Prayer again and truely believe. At least this is what I always thought. Am I wrong?
 
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The Story Teller

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JohnR7 said:
I think we were saved, we are being saved and we will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

I agree, but that didn't answer the question. Can you be saved and fall out of grace with God?
 
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The Story Teller

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Wypadek said:
Defiantely! All I have to say is that if it wasn't true, being Christian wouldn't be WORTH it! Well, maybe it would, but it would be like, 'oh dang it, I messed up bad today, so I'm not saved, gotta make up for it tomorrow' and the 'okay, I'm saved today' that would NOT be kosher

Have you ever heard of the term, back slider? Some times people that are saved revert back to their old selves. Does this mean that they are still saved? We need to remember the teaching of the seeds:

(Mat 13:3 NIV) Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed.

(Mat 13:4 NIV) As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.

(Mat 13:5 NIV) Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.

(Mat 13:6 NIV) But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

(Mat 13:7 NIV) Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.

(Mat 13:8 NIV) Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop--a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

(Mat 13:9 NIV) He who has ears, let him hear."

(Mat 13:10 NIV) The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

(Mat 13:11 NIV) He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

(Mat 13:12 NIV) Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.

(Mat 13:13 NIV) This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

(Mat 13:14 NIV) In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

(Mat 13:15 NIV) For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

(Mat 13:16 NIV) But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.

(Mat 13:17 NIV) For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

(Mat 13:18 NIV) "Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:

(Mat 13:19 NIV) When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.

(Mat 13:20 NIV) The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

(Mat 13:21 NIV) But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

(Mat 13:22 NIV) The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

(Mat 13:23 NIV) But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."
 
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The Story Teller

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PuppyforChrist said:
I always thought that if you were a Christian in your early life, then one day you suddenly decide you don't want him anymore and push God away from your life. Then you are no longer a Christian until you say the Sinner's Prayer again and truely believe. At least this is what I always thought. Am I wrong?

To a point you are. Was not Satan once an angel. Did he not fall out of grace with God. Here we have an angel that knew God and still wanted his own way. What happened?? He fell from God's grace and was thrown out of heaven. So once saved always saved. I don't think so.
 
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The Story Teller

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PuppyforChrist said:
I got saved a year and a half ago. Since then my mother has never gotten it off my back. I have no idea why.

Why would being saved bother your mother? Even so you are to love your mother and everyone else. That is the commandment Jesus gave us. The closer your walk with Jesus the more people will notice you've changed. Being saved is an inside job. Once the inside starts changing the out side starts to reflect it.
 
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JohnR7

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The Story Teller said:
I agree, but that didn't answer the question. Can you be saved and fall out of grace with God?

We need to be sure we do not fall short of the grace of God.

Hebrews 12:14-15
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: [15] looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
 
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JohnR7

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The Story Teller said:
Why would being saved bother your mother?

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 12:51-52
Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. [52] For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.
 
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The Story Teller

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JohnR7 said:
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Luke 12:51-52
Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. [52] For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three.


(Mat 22:36 NIV) "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

(Mat 22:37 NIV) Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

(Mat 22:38 NIV) This is the first and greatest commandment.

(Mat 22:39 NIV) And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
 
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Noddingdog

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I believe someone can lose their salvation. This is the "unforgivable" sin, one which a person cannot turn back on. If they were truly a Christian and truly turned away, they rejected the blood of Christ and rejected him. I feel this cannot be gone back on if someone was to do it.
 
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The Story Teller

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Noddingdog said:
I believe someone can lose their salvation. This is the "unforgivable" sin, one which a person cannot turn back on. If they were truly a Christian and truly turned away, they rejected the blood of Christ and rejected him. I feel this cannot be gone back on if someone was to do it.

How does this sound:

Once Saved, Always Saved IS WRONG

Proof from the Gospels

Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." ~ Note: Part of the meaning of the word "saved," from the Greek word "sozo," is "to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgement." The word that Jesus Christ spoke will judge in the last day (John 12:48). This being "saved" is clearly conditional. We must endure to the end. To endure means "to remain, not to recede or flee, to preserve under misfortunes and trials, to hold fast to one's faith in Christ, to bear bravely and calmly ill treatments."

Luke 12:45,46 - "But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." ~ Note: That's plain and simple. One can be a servant of Christ, start the practice of sin, and not be ready for eternal life when Christ comes back again. This person will go where the unbelievers go.

THE PARABLE of THE SOWER

Luke 8:5-8 - Jesus said, "A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. Some fell on rock, and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold." When He had said these things He cried, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

JESUS then explained THE PARABLE of THE SOWER

Luke 8:11-15 - Jesus said, "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved (note: These people don't become believers to begin with after they hear the word of God, but the others next do believe and get born again, but they lose their life in Christ and fall away because of sin). But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while (note: For a time they were born-again believers. It's the common word for believe, "pisteuo." I think they should have learned the word of God better. But even if they would have had some root, God still could have cut them off because of unbelief, just like you'll see it is in Romans 11:17-22. The people who say that the ones who fall away were not real believers contradict God's word) and in time of temptation fall away (note: They had been set free from sin, but they didn't resist the temptation of sin. The Greek word for "fall away" is "aphistemi." It means they "depart, desert, withdraw, fall away," whichever definition you choose to use, from having life in Christ. They no longer have belief which means they "become faithless" because they fell for the temptation of sin).

Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and they are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity (note: Sin destroyed these lives as well. The sin of greed. I will also show you later that you need to bear good fruit).

But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it (note: The Greek word for "keep" is "katecho." It means "hold fast, keep, stay" in regards to "from going away." Clearly this is our personal responsibility to continue to believe the word of God and to remain faithful to Him) and bear fruit with patience." ~ Note: The Greek word for "patience" is "hupomone." It more correctly means "enduring, perseverance, the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings." To be saved at the end, you must persevere while bearing good fruit. Jesus made it clear that a true believer produces good fruit, and that the human will is involved in remaining a believer, since He says we must "keep it" and "persevere." Christ proves here that no one is eternally secure no matter what they do.

TASTELESS SALT is WORTHLESS

Luke 14:34,35 - Jesus said, "Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" ~ Note: Jesus' point is that the same is true of a "saltless" disciple. He will be thrown out. The Greek word for "salt" is "halas." It also means "wisdom and grace exhibited in speech." The Greek word for "lost its flavor" is "moraino." It also means "to be foolish, to make flat and tasteless." So watch what you say. Don't be foolish and tasteless in what you say, have grace in your speech. ~ I've seen it denied that this has anything to do about how we talk, but look at this other Scripture with the same Greek word in it, and you will see that is IS about what we say. ~ Colossians 4:6 - Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. ~ So that clearly proves salt means having grace in your speech. The way we talk can make us lose our salvation.

THE PARABLE of THE LOST SON

Luke 15:13 - Jesus said, "And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living." ~ Note: The Greek verb for "wasted" is "diaskorpizo." It means "to scatter abroad, disperse." So this is doing something like what we call "throw your money away." The Greek word for "prodigal" is "asotos." It means "riotous, dissolutely, profligately." These words mean "immoral, corrupt, extremely wasteful, recklessly extravagant." So the son took his inheritance and squandered it all away living a recklessly extravagant lifestyle. But when he came to his senses (came to himself in 15:17. It doesn't means that the Holy Spirit convicted him. He had to personally choose what to do), repented, and turned back to his father, he said this...

Luke 15:21 - "And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son." ~ Note: This guy knew he fell into the bondage of sin and was no longer considered worthy to be a child of God, but his father said...

Luke 15:24 - "'for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry." ~ Note: The Greek word for "dead" is "nekros." Here it means "spiritually dead, destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God because given up to trespasses and sins." The Greek word for "alive again" is "anazao." Here it means "to be restored to a correct life, of one who returns to a better moral state." The words "restored" and "returns" are actions of things that once had it, then didn't have it, then had it again. The words "dead" and "alive again" clearly mean that the son had lost his salvation but later got it back. And surely you probably know that the words "lost" and "found" are about someone who is or is not going to heaven. Clearly, this parable explains that someone can be a child of God, then leave God and start the practice of sin, and become dead and lose their fellowship with God, because God just said that "he was lost." Unless, of course, one comes to their senses, repents, and turns back to God like I did after I backslid and in the way it is portrayed in this parable. Then they will be "alive again." But just because this parable has a happy ending, it doesn't mean that it always turns out this way. The Scriptures I have on my site will prove this; but first, another happy ending...

Luke 22:31,32 - And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! (Peter) Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat (note: The Greek word for "sift" is "siniazo." Figuratively, it means "by inward agitation to try one's faith to the verge of overthrow." You see, Satan can try to get you to overthrow your faith). But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail (note: I see the Lord implying that it is possible that our faith could fail. If that were to happen, then our relationship with God would cease); and when you have returned to Me (note: The Greek word for "returned" is "epistrepho." It means "turn again, turn back, come back" in regards "to the love and obedience of God." That's pretty simple to understand. It's possible to stop obeying God. Then we would need to turn back to Him.), strengthen your brethren." ~ Note: Peter was dangerously close to having his faith failing when he denied that he knew Jesus 3 times. This was when Satan was sifting him. It's a good thing Jesus prayed for him so that he didn't totally abandon Jesus. If Peter was in danger of his faith failing, we also need to be aware of this possibility.

THE VINE & THE BRANCHES

John 15:1,2 - Jesus said, "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away..." ~ Note: This is someone in Christ who gets taken away because they did not bear fruit. The Greek word for "fruit" is "karpos." It means "that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result; or, work, act, deed; or, praises which are presented to God as a thank offering." Obviously something a servant of God personally needs to have or else God will take that person away. The Greek word for "takes away" is "airo." I believe the meaning here is "to take off or away what is attached to anything; to remove." So this Scripture is about God removing someone from being in Christ. So clearly, this is about someone losing their salvation.

John 15:6 - Jesus said, "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered (note: in order to be cast out, one must first be "in Christ"); and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." ~ Note: The Greek word for "abide" is "meno." It also means "remain, continue, endure, not to depart, to continue to be present, to remain as one, not to become another or different." Surely, this is a warning to stay in Christ, which means it's possible to not do so. To be thrown into the fire and burned is clearly about God casting someone to hell where they will be consumed with fire. This will happen to a former branch in Christ. So this is a clear teaching of Jesus that it is necessary for us believers to continue to walk in the sanctification given us at the new birth. We must keep believing and obeying His word (John 15:9,10), or we chose to stop our relationship with Him. That would be some of us not bearing fruit, which stems from not obeying Him, that causes some to be cast out.

Found at http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Gospels.html

:)
 
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Hebrews 13:5 - "Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."...see also 1 ch 28:20

I believe you can give it up by denying Jesus, but by my own experience...I have "backslid" in the past but I believe He was with me and called me back "Never leaving me or forsaking me!"
 
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Lanakila

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We are to "examine ourselves to see if we be in the faith". This must mean we can be out of the faith. I was always OSAS until I met so many atheists that used to be Christians. You can't tell all these people they never were Christians in the first place. For one thing it's insulting. For another you really don't know that, for we don't know their hearts.
 
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Noddingdog

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The Story Teller said:

If someone truly turned their back on Christ it would not be possible to go back for them IMO, they never would as a matter of their own choice. Their heart would have turned cold and they would have been so influenced by satan that they would no longer have a desire to keep their salvation.
 
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The Story Teller

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It has been my own personal experience that you can backslid and then repent and come back into the grace of God. I was on fire many years ago and then some thing very personal happened. Because I wasn't rooted deep into the bible I doubted and even walked away. Then some 15 years ago I was sitting on my couch thinking about what had happened. It had been 5 years ago. I realized that God had never left me. I had wandered off and for a while was lost. I asked God to forgive me and promised that I would never stray again. Since then I've been through many storms, but I know now that God goes through each and every one with me. I've grown through each one and because of them I've been able to weather other storms and wittiness to others. Had I not gone through what I did, I would not have grown to where I could help others in their time of sorrows. Sometimes you have to have been in their shoes to know what to say. Today I thank God for my storms and for the knowledge HE has passed on to me. And YES, I am saved…
 
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