The Same God or Different Gods

fragmentsofdreams · Jul 13, 2004

I've seen many people talk about how they don't worship the God of another or that certain groups who disagree on matters of theology yet point to the same historical God are worshipping different Gods.

I'm wondering what others think about this. Do those who disagree with worship other Gods? How much disagreement is required before the same God becomes a different God?

seebs · Jul 13, 2004

This is a very interesting topic.

If you ask people whether or not there are other gods, they say no. If you ask them whether Wiccans worship the same god, they say no.

These answers strike me as incompatible. If there are no other gods, there is no way to worship a false god. The worst you could do is failing to worship anything, and perhaps thinking mistakenly that you are worshipping.

But... It seems to me that if you address an envelope "To Whom It May Concern, c/o Creator Of All Things", it will go to the right place, no matter how wrong you have the rest of the details.

The underlying question of identity is a very difficult one, and not easily answered.

coyoteBR · Jul 14, 2004

seebs said:
This is a very interesting topic.

But... It seems to me that if you address an envelope "To Whom It May Concern, c/o Creator Of All Things", it will go to the right place, no matter how wrong you have the rest of the details.

QUOTE]

Very well said, seebs.
I have a similar vision. One can call God lots of different names. Can try to talk to Him by hundreds and hundreds of different rituals, formulas, prays. But, in the end, what matters is the heart of that person. What they need, deep down, their faith and need to connect with The Superior Being (whatever idea one make of Him - Desiderata, anyone?).
If the person is sincere, will receive the answer.

Was not that way, we would not have so many examples of faith and small miracles in most religions.

fragmentsofdreams · Jul 14, 2004

I believe that that they worship the same God. If they have a poor or corrupted understanding of God, it makes them bad theists, not non-theists.

lared · Jul 14, 2004

The word 'god' means mighty one.
A 'god' can be whoever or whatever you revolve your life around.
Some make their belly their god.
Others make money their god.
Still others make education their god.
Then in the various religions.....some may revolve their life around Satan and his teachings, or Buddha and his teachings, or Allah and his teachings. Or perhaps the trinity god of christendom. Still others, revolve their life around Jehovah, the author of the Bible.

Julie · Jul 14, 2004

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

lared · Jul 15, 2004

Julie said:
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

This helps us to see that Jesus Christ is not God Almighty but yet the mediator between the true Almighty God Jehovah and us.

Polycarp1 · Jul 16, 2004

I have a friend who is a Unitarian Universalist. He and I agree on nearly every point of moral theology -- and its source in Christ. But we obviously differ on Trinitarian theology. Do we worship different gods? And if so, how do we find ourselves coming up with the same moral answers?

I think we have to distinguish between the ineffable true nature of the One True God, and our feeble attempts at apprehending what that nature is. My conception of God differs greatly from, say, a conservative Baptist's -- but we're in agreement that we're talking about the same God, just disagree on how we understand Him. I think most Christians would say the same thing about Jews. Does it make sense that this might also be true of Moslems -- given that, no matter how much he may have misunderstood Christian doctrine and taught error in consequence, Mohammed certainly was adamant that the idols of the Meccans were not true gods and that the only true God was the God of Abraham. Whatever else he got wrong, he got that one right.

When we get into the other faiths -- the Hindu perception of one Brahman who manifests himself in multiple deities and avatars, the one Principle which underlies the Lord and Lady of most Pagan thought, etc. -- we begin to dilute this concept until it's nearly meaningless -- but Truth pops up in the most unlikely of places.

Look sometime at the appendix to C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man to see Christian truth exhibited in nearly every faith tradition.

CaDan · Jul 16, 2004

Julie said:
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

<<A Psalm of Asaph.>> God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations. Psalms 82:1-8, KJV.

seebs · Jul 16, 2004

Christianity practically has to be henotheistic in some way for the Old Testament to make sense. Of course, we could argue that the others "aren't really gods", because the term is ill-defined.

enoch son · Jul 18, 2004

You all forgot the one god that over 99 o/o of the people worship "THEIR OWEN FLESH". AND THE FUNNY THING ABOUT THAT IS JAMES 4-14 "YET YOU DO NOTKNOW WHAT YOUR LIFE WILL BE LIKE TOMORROW. YOU ARE JUST A VAPOR THAT APPEARS FOR A LITLE WHILE AND THEN VANISHES AWAY." Self pride the fall of man.

armyman_83 · Jul 18, 2004

I don't know about others but I am the servent of the God of Abraham, Isaac. Yahweh is my God and I praise him now. "I wil praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee."--Psalm 138:1

Do I think there are other gods....yes and no. Yahweh is the only way through Jesus His Son. People praise other things/people as gods they are to them, but to the Yahweh they are not real and to those who know the truth. Yahweh is the only way through Jesus his son. But we should not tempt the false gods just because they are fake the demons of the Devil are real and will curse you sure as Jesus. It is easyer to say in person sorry......

Polycarp1 · Jul 18, 2004

armyman_83 said:
I don't know about others but I am the servent of the God of Abraham, Isaac. Yahweh is my God and I praise him now. "I wil praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee."--Psalm 138:1

Do I think there are other gods....yes and no. Yahweh is the only way through Jesus His Son. People praise other things/people as gods they are to them, but to the Yahweh they are not real and to those who know the truth. Yahweh is the only way through Jesus his son. But we should not tempt the false gods just because they are fake the demons of the Devil are real and will curse you sure as Jesus. It is easyer to say in person sorry......

And I am with you on that affirmation.

But now consider the question raised in this thread. Never mind Ba'al and Apollo and all their friends and relations -- if they're anything but imaginary, they're temptations.

However, an Orthodox, non-Messianic Jew claims to believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, too -- but denies that Jesus plays any part in Him, other than being a possibly-deluded prophet of Him. Does he believe in "the same God, or a different God"?

And when you've resolved the question about the Jew, think of the UUist. He believes in the God of the Bible -- but he thinks the He may have (partially) inspired Mohammed, Gautama the Buddha, Kung Fu-Tse, and some of the other religious leaders of the past. "Same God, or different God"?

Then contemplate the Muslim. He says that the principal article of his faith is "There is no God but God, and Mohammed is His prophet." And when he says "God" (actually he says Allah, but that word simply means "The God" in Arabic, and it is the name by which the Holy Trinity is known to the Antiochan Orthodox in their Arabic-speaking homelands) -- he is talking about the God of Abraham, the one he proclaimed to the polytheistic Mekkans when he denounced their idolatry. Granted that he had some decidedly weird ideas about God -- was the God whom he proclaimed "the same God, or a different God"?

See the problem? If you deny that the Jews worship the same God, you're in direct contradiction to Paul, Matthew, and virtually every leader of the early Church. And if you include the Jews, why draw the line there, and not including the UUists and the Moslems?

It's not quite so easy a question as it seems at first glance.

armyman_83 · Jul 19, 2004

That is why I said I belive in His Son Jesus the Christ.

leecappella · Jul 20, 2004

fragmentsofdreams said:
I've seen many people talk about how they don't worship the God of another or that certain groups who disagree on matters of theology yet point to the same historical God are worshipping different Gods.

I'm wondering what others think about this. Do those who disagree with worship other Gods? How much disagreement is required before the same God becomes a different God?

It is only different because the perceptions of who God is differs from person to person. There are those who worship God the Creator, but call 'him' by another name because of the context in which they were raised to believe in. For some, that context is a christian context. For others, it is another religious context they were brought up in. It may be likely that we all are worshipping the same god, but due to the context in which we were raised in, perceptions of God differs and God appears to be different to all of us due to the differences in detail and aspects of our particular faith and doctrines. Needless to say, our humanity always plays a part in this and the results can lead to one following a faith that manifests characteristics in persons that are not characteristics of God or Christ. My humble opinion, ofcourse!

Starstreak M86 · Jul 30, 2004

I have studied on other religions, and still continue to today.

I am a Trintarian Christian, and I have notice other ancient religions that have a three-part god that sound very similar to the God of the Bible.

Such as the god of early Brahmanism (Brahman, Vishnu, Shiva) of ancient India, or the god of Shang'tism of early China, or early Shintoism of early ancient Japan.

I do recall God saying somewhere in the Bible that the Hebrews were not the only or even the first people that He revealed Himself to. He said that Gentiles have no reason to not believe either. Paul noted this when He said that God has revealed Himself and His grace to all humans.

Sharp · Jul 30, 2004

seebs said:
This is a very interesting topic.
These answers strike me as incompatible. If there are no other gods, there is no way to worship a false god. The worst you could do is failing to worship anything, and perhaps thinking mistakenly that you are worshipping.

Hardly. That is begging the question. It is like passing counterfeit paper and saying, "But I thought it was real." You can worship a NON-EXISTENT god... and that is still a false god.

---

To the question at hand... The grace of God by far exceeds that of any mortal theologian. Jesus said people must worship God in both spirit and in truth. There must be a truth component to worship. How people respond to the partial truths God has already revealed to them is the basis for their faith and for God's willingness to reveal more.

God answers the prayers of Hindus and Moslems even with their erroneous views of Himself, because He is merciful. But there comes a time when He stops if they reject His further revelation. That's something to think about.
No, we don't worship the same God, but He can use the light we have to reveal more.

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