What kind of Christian am I? Need some resources...

By Grace · Jul 6, 2004

I'm sure this sounds like an odd question. Let me begin by saying I was raised in a Protestant Christian household. We always celebrated Christmas, Easter, etc. But recently I've started learning more about the histories of these holidays and deciding I want to de-emphasize them and celebrate the biblical holidays instead. I've also learned more about the Hebrew names for the Father (Yahuweh) and the Messiah (Yahushuah, Yeshua, etc) and want to make some changes in my vocabulary as a result. Needless to say, there aren't many churches in my area that do these things.

So what kind of Christian am I? From what I understand, 'Messianic' refers to those of Jewish blood who have accepted Yeshua as their Savior and still follow the biblical holidays. But I'm not Jewish by birth. I'm not looking for a label just to segregate myself from other Christians. Rather, I'm looking for ways to help me find more resources.

Any input or advice would be appreciated!

Jill

Asaph · Jul 6, 2004

By Grace said:
I'm sure this sounds like an odd question. Let me begin by saying I was raised in a Protestant Christian household. We always celebrated Christmas, Easter, etc. But recently I've started learning more about the histories of these holidays and deciding I want to de-emphasize them and celebrate the biblical holidays instead. I've also learned more about the Hebrew names for the Father (Yahuweh) and the Messiah (Yahushuah, Yeshua, etc) and want to make some changes in my vocabulary as a result. Needless to say, there aren't many churches in my area that do these things.

So what kind of Christian am I? From what I understand, 'Messianic' refers to those of Jewish blood who have accepted Yeshua as their Savior and still follow the biblical holidays. But I'm not Jewish by birth. I'm not looking for a label just to segregate myself from other Christians. Rather, I'm looking for ways to help me find more resources.

Any input or advice would be appreciated!

Jill

Hi Jill,

Welcome to CF. You will find no better resource for what you are asking about than the Messianic Judaism forum here at CF. I would recommend the "Judaism 101" thread for an excellent place to start.
We here in non-denom will be glad to help you in any way we can as well.

God bless you for your obvious zeal for Him,
Asaph

Momzilla · Jul 6, 2004

Just out of curiosity, what biblical holidays will you observe?

And one point to note--christians in the apostolic era celebrated certain feast days (e.g., the nativity of Christ, pascha) before there was any interaction with pagan groups that celebrated feasts near those times. I'm not knowledgeable enough about this area of Christian history to provide a full explanation; perhaps someone with more knowledge than I can help out.

By Grace · Jul 6, 2004

Momzilla said:
Just out of curiosity, what biblical holidays will you observe?

I've been discussing this issue on another Christian board, but I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to that thread. If you're interested, though, send me a private message, and I'll give you the link.

In the meantime, let me quote some of my comments from that other thread (so I don't have to write it all over again!).

>
>
I'm in the process of researching this, and it looks like this will become a major research project for me. A really good website I've found is biblicalholidays.com where I'm getting a lot of my basic information.

The way I understand it at this point is that when the Messiah died and was resurrected, we were freed from the obligations of sacrificing offerings to atone for our sins b/c that part was fulfilled by His ultimate sacrifice (Hebr 10:1-18), but that doesn't mean the entire law was made completely null and void. The Messiah told us that "anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19) Also, Paul said "Keeping God's commands is what counts." (1 Cor 7:19) That doesn't mean that we can be saved by following the Law, for that's impossible, but the Law, written on our hearts by the Spirit (Hebr 10:16), gives us the opportunity to honor and glorify the Father by willingly following His commands. When we break the Law, we may be least in the kingdom of heaven, but we're still there! However, by obeying the Law, we further the plan that the Father has for us. It's not a matter of doing it b/c we have to, but b/c we want to.

So, that said, these are the biblical holidays that the Jews traditionally celebrate. (If there are other biblical holidays, I'm not yet aware of them.)

Passover (Pesach) See Numb 9:11, Numb 28:16-25, Levi 23:4-8 and Exod 13:3-10
Unleavened Bread See Exod 34:18-21 and 23:15, Levi 23:4-8, and Numb 28:16-25
Day of Firstfrits See Exod 23:16 and Levi 23:9-14 "This it to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live."
Feast of Weeks (Shavuot, Pentecost) See Exod 34:22, Levi 23:15-22, and Numb 28:26-31
Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah, aka Jewish New Year) See Exod 34:22 and 23:16, Levi 23:23-25, and Numb 29:1-6
Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) See Levi 23:26-32, Numb 29:7-11
Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) See Levi 23:33-43, Numb 29:12-39
Hannukkah The website says the Messiah kept this festival, but I haven't found the passage yet.
Purim See Esther 9:18-32 This holiday was established to commemorate the story in Esther. It was not established by the Father Himself, but by the Jews.
Sabbath See Exod 35:1-3 and 20:8, Levi 23:3

I'm sure there are other passages that refer to these holidays in some form or another, but this is as far as I've gotten.
>
>

So those are the holidays and the Scriptures where you can find more information on each. Does that answer your question?

I'm not sure yet how all of that translates into my daily life, but I guess that's why I'm searching for more support. My mom and two of my sisters are interested in making these changes. My DH is kind of hesitant, but he's trying to maintain an open mind. We have two small children, so we want to make sure we develop some fun traditions for them, since the idea is for these things to take the place of other holidays that all their friends will be celebrating (Christmas, etc.).

I'm hoping I can find that support here!

Jill

Asaph · Jul 6, 2004

By Grace said:
I've been discussing this issue on another Christian board, but I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to that thread. If you're interested, though, send me a private message, and I'll give you the link.

In the meantime, let me quote some of my comments from that other thread (so I don't have to write it all over again!).

>
>
I'm in the process of researching this, and it looks like this will become a major research project for me. A really good website I've found is biblicalholidays.com where I'm getting a lot of my basic information.

The way I understand it at this point is that when the Messiah died and was resurrected, we were freed from the obligations of sacrificing offerings to atone for our sins b/c that part was fulfilled by His ultimate sacrifice (Hebr 10:1-18), but that doesn't mean the entire law was made completely null and void. The Messiah told us that "anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19) Also, Paul said "Keeping God's commands is what counts." (1 Cor 7:19) That doesn't mean that we can be saved by following the Law, for that's impossible, but the Law, written on our hearts by the Spirit (Hebr 10:16), gives us the opportunity to honor and glorify the Father by willingly following His commands. When we break the Law, we may be least in the kingdom of heaven, but we're still there! However, by obeying the Law, we further the plan that the Father has for us. It's not a matter of doing it b/c we have to, but b/c we want to.

So, that said, these are the biblical holidays that the Jews traditionally celebrate. (If there are other biblical holidays, I'm not yet aware of them.)

Passover (Pesach) See Numb 9:11, Numb 28:16-25, Levi 23:4-8 and Exod 13:3-10
Unleavened Bread See Exod 34:18-21 and 23:15, Levi 23:4-8, and Numb 28:16-25
Day of Firstfrits See Exod 23:16 and Levi 23:9-14 "This it to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live."
Feast of Weeks (Shavuot, Pentecost) See Exod 34:22, Levi 23:15-22, and Numb 28:26-31
Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah, aka Jewish New Year) See Exod 34:22 and 23:16, Levi 23:23-25, and Numb 29:1-6
Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) See Levi 23:26-32, Numb 29:7-11
Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) See Levi 23:33-43, Numb 29:12-39
Hannukkah The website says the Messiah kept this festival, but I haven't found the passage yet.
Purim See Esther 9:18-32 This holiday was established to commemorate the story in Esther. It was not established by the Father Himself, but by the Jews.
Sabbath See Exod 35:1-3 and 20:8, Levi 23:3

I'm sure there are other passages that refer to these holidays in some form or another, but this is as far as I've gotten.
>
>

So those are the holidays and the Scriptures where you can find more information on each. Does that answer your question?

I'm not sure yet how all of that translates into my daily life, but I guess that's why I'm searching for more support. My mom and two of my sisters are interested in making these changes. My DH is kind of hesitant, but he's trying to maintain an open mind. We have two small children, so we want to make sure we develop some fun traditions for them, since the idea is for these things to take the place of other holidays that all their friends will be celebrating (Christmas, etc.).

I'm hoping I can find that support here!

Jill

Your question sounded so innocent, but you have missed the entirety of the message. That is that the Law has been fulfilled. It has been completed. There no longer remains a requirement for any of it, and to espouse that there is, is another slap in the face of Him who paid the price.
There are those of us who get great joy out of investagating and experiencing the richness of those things that were a shadow of what was to come. But out of respect for the death of my Savior, we stop at just the remembrence of the Law that was fulfilled.
I certainly hope I have misread your post here, and if I have, I humbly apologize.

Asaph

Asaph · Jul 7, 2004

BG,

Let me add this as the earlier post of mine sounds terrribly harsh without it. There is nothing wrong with celebrating these feasts and holidays. On the contrary, learning about these things and trying to experience them in the richness of their true meanings can be very edifying. However, if your intent is to complete something that has been left undone by the atoning sacrifice of our Lord then there is a big problem. You would be bringing yourself under Law instead of Grace and you would be then required to keep the whole Law and if you were to stumble in only one point you would be guilty of breaking the whole Law.
A Christian has two commandments, but non-Christians have ten commandments and the Pentatuch, specifically Leviticus (the law) and Deuteronomy (the re-law). That does not mean a Christian has it any easier, in fact I think it's harder. Our two commandments are these:
Love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. And the second is like it; Love your neighbor as yourself.
All of the law is contained in those two things. Simple to say, not so easy to do. So I hope this helps, and I pray God will bless you for your great desire for Him.

Grace and Peace,
Asaph

By Grace · Jul 7, 2004

Asaph said:
BG,

Let me add this as the earlier post of mine sounds terrribly harsh without it. There is nothing wrong with celebrating these feasts and holidays. On the contrary, learning about these things and trying to experience them in the richness of their true meanings can be very edifying. However, if your intent is to complete something that has been left undone by the atoning sacrifice of our Lord then there is a big problem.

...

Grace and Peace,
Asaph

Actually, I think we're pretty much on the same page. From my previous post: "That doesn't mean that we can be saved by following the Law, for that's impossible, but the Law, written on our hearts by the Spirit (Hebr 10:16), gives us the opportunity to honor and glorify the Father by willingly following His commands. When we break the Law, we may be least in the kingdom of heaven, but we're still there! However, by obeying the Law, we further the plan that the Father has for us. It's not a matter of doing it b/c we have to, but b/c we want to."

I don't think it's necessary to celebrate the biblical holidays in order to be saved. But I think that if we honor the Father's commandments, then there are a lot of blessings to be had, the greatest of which would be a closer relationship with Him. The Messiah and Paul both observed the Sabbath, as well as the other biblical holidays. The Messiah, at one point, listed several of the Ten Commandments as being important. True, they're all summed up in the two commands to love the Father and love each other as we love ourselves, but we can't follow those perfectly, either (which you already mentioned). It's not a matter of earning my way to Heaven; I'm simply looking for ways to strengthen my relationship with God. Please forgive me if it seemed I was advocating following the Law as a means of salvation. Let me add another quote from my thread on my other discussion board:

>
>
Do I place a high level of importance on seeking out and following the Father's will, or do I just do what I've always done, whether He likes it or not? Wouldn't it honor Him if I care enough to seek out His true Name? Why did He give us these biblical holidays if it totally didn't matter whether we observed them or not? Shouldn't I seek to purify my relationship with Him by eliminating traditions that are contrary to His will for me? If He has a job for me that is not traditionally acceptable for a woman, who should I obey, the Father or man?

I'm truly not trying to condemn anyone else for their beliefs. I think He meets us where we are, and by His mercy, we don't have to have all the right answers before we die! But lately, I have truly felt a burning desire to understand more and to seek out His will. That doesn't mean I'm getting it all right, though. I really appreciate your willingness to discuss all of this; it gives me the opportunity to examine it all with a more open mind, rather than just accepting at face value what I've heard from only a few people.
>
>

So, anyway, I hope that clarifies where I'm coming from.

Jill

Asaph · Jul 7, 2004

By Grace said:
Actually, I think we're pretty much on the same page.

I bet we are too. I hope you've had a chance to check out that thread in MJ. It is a great wealth of information and I myself haven't been through even half of it I bet. I kind of got engrossed in the Hebrew writing information. It is awesome. I believe God always honors His children's wishes to draw nearer to Him, so hold onto your hat!....

Grace and Peace,
Asaph

Thunderchild · Jul 10, 2004

Christmas has been celebrated by the various churches for as long as there have been churches. Until AD 300 or thenabouts, Christmas was a movable feast - that is, it was not celebrated on a specified date but bounced around the calendar a bit, just as the celebration of Easter still does. Arguments about the actual timing of Christmas are specious - the Biblical description of the every day events in progress at the time of Jesus's birth point firmly to about the time of the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere. While the timing of Christmas may be out by a week or two, it is the birth of Christ that is celebrated. (The Queen's Birthday Holiday in Australia is celebrated no-where near the date of the current queen's birthday - co-incidentally, it also occurs within a few days of a celebration in honour of one of the pagan deities. Be assured that the QBH in no way is held in honour of that pagan deity.) The procedural forms in the celebration of Christmas reflect those of the Feast of Purim.... Logical when you think about the raison d'etre behind that feast (deliverance.)

Easter is the celebration of the memorial of the death and resurrection of the Christ. The name "Easter" derives from the name of the tide (season) during which that memorial celebration is held, not from the memorial celebration itself. The word itself therefore is properly a misnomer. "Easter" in fact has its roots in the Pesach - and celebrates the steps leading to spiritual freedom that Christ initiated, just as the Jews celebrate the Pesach as a memorial to their being led to freedom from Egypt. In short, it is the Pesach modified to reflect the fact that the redeemer has come.

Messianic Christians do not necessarily have Jewish ancestry, but are people who have adopted the Jewish Church's forms.

By Grace · Jul 10, 2004

thunderchild, do you have resources you can give me that support the statements you've made? Many of your comments are contrary to what I've been reading from other sources.

TIA,
Jill

Eusebios · Jul 10, 2004

Easter in the East is in fac t still called Pascha, and is closely tied to the feast of the passover.Many of these holidays have thier current counterparts which are still celebrated in Churches that follow a liturgical tradition, such as Anglicanism, Catholicism, Lutheranism, and my own home, The Orthodox Church.
Unfortunately, I do not have time at the moment to completely list the "Christian" holidays that correspond to the Jewish one's, hopefully I can get to it at some later time.
Under His Mercy,
Eusebios.
:bow:

Thunderchild · Jul 11, 2004

Just one of many sources regarding Easter.This one being official Church of Rome... http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06780a.htm

The Roman missionaries coming to England in the time of St. Gregory the Great found the British , the representatives of that Christianity which had been introduced into Britain during the period of the Roman occupation, still adhering to an ancient system of Easter-computation which Rome itself had laid aside. The British and Irish Christians were not Quartodecimans, as some unwarrantably accused them of being, for they kept the Easter festival upon a Sunday. They are supposed (e.g. by Krusch) to have observed an eight-four year cycle and not the five-hundred and thirty two year cycle of Victorius which was adopted in Gaul, but the most recent investigator of the question (Schwartz, p. 103) declares it to be impossible to determine what system they followed and himself inclines to the opinion that they derived their rule for the determining of Easter direct from Asia Minor. (See, however, the very opposite conclusions of Joseph Schmid, ("Die Osterfestberechnung auf den britischen Inseln", 1904.) The story of this controversy, which together with the difference in the shape of tonsure, seems to have prevented all fraternization between the British Christians and the Roman missionaries, is told at length in the pages of Bede. The British appealed to the tradition of St. John, the Romans to that of St. Peter, both sides with little reason, and neither without the suspicion of forgery. It was not until the Synod of Whitby in 664 that the Christians of Northern Britain, who had derived their instruction in the Faith from the Scottish (i.e. Irish) missionaries, at last at the instance of Bishop Wilfrid and through the example of King Oswy accepted the Roman system and came into friendly relations with the bishops of the South. Even then in Ireland and in parts of the North some years passed before the adoption of the Roman Easter became general (Moran, Essays on the Origin, Doctrines and Discipline of the Early Irish Church, Dublin, 1864).

As to the timing of Christmas, there two times of the year that shepherds around Bethlehem can be expected to settle their flocks in the open... The second is at the spring equinox (and no source I have encountered places the time of Jesus's birth as late March), while the first is when the shepherds move their flocks down from the mountains to the Jordan for winter pasture. That move begins shortly before the winter solstice.

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What kind of Christian am I? Need some resources...

By Grace

Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

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Asaph

Well-Known Member

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Momzilla

Gettin' that old time religion!

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By Grace

Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

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Asaph

Well-Known Member

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Asaph

Well-Known Member

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By Grace

Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

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Asaph

Well-Known Member

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Thunderchild

Sheep in Wolf's clothing

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By Grace

Flying HIGH on eagles' WINGS

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Eusebios

Create in me a clean heart O God!

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Thunderchild

Sheep in Wolf's clothing

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