CIA Blamed For Lack Of WMD's

I wouldn't absolve Bush of the blame so fast. There is a second report coming.

A bipartisan Senate report to be issued Friday that is highly critical of prewar intelligence on Iraq will sidestep the question of how the Bush administration used that information to make the case for war, Congressional officials said Wednesday.

But Democrats are maneuvering to raise the issue in separate statements. Under a deal reached this year between Republicans and Democrats, the Bush administration's role will not be addressed until the Senate Intelligence Committee completes a further stage of its inquiry, but probably not until after the November election. As a result, said the officials, both Democratic and Republican, the committee's initial, unanimous report will focus solely on misjudgments by intelligence agencies, not the White House, in the assessments about Iraq, illicit weapons and Al Qaeda that the administration used as a rationale for the war.

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Source

Basically, the majority party has managed to make sure that the Bush dirty laundry isn't published until after the election. How sweet.

So is Bush going to use the Ken Lay defense?

Bush was the commander in chief of the Armed forces and the 'CEO' of the country. There were plenty of red flags related to the intel that he and his advisors chose not to follow up on or simply ignored. The picture from intel and investigation organizations here and worldwide had plenty of inconsistencies and it was not the bullet proof case that he and the administration made it out to be.

If even ONE piece of intelligence or ONE red flag came up that was contrary to the party line, it was the responsiblity of the administration to confirm it or at least investigate it. They did not do this dilligently and gambled our forces into a war that now was based on smoke and mirrors.

When all is said and done, the buck stops with him.

Tony Blair must have a hard time supporting Bush these days.

I'm not one of the 'informed' people so I really don't have an opinion here but, Thank you for the article!

-kate-

I'm one who is happy, and determined to continue to "bask in the complacency of our unyielding opinions".

The administration of GWB and the government of TB, both misused data to hand, and against the advice of experts in the field.
There was a determination to go to war: and intel was used as resource in public persuasion; and all this was crucially influenced by the Christian conviction of the two leaders.
Like many, that is the verdict on those events and times, which I will take to my grave, and in which I will school my children.

I find these reports (we have the Butler report out soon) useful and interesting: but, through the media, I saw these guys in action; the judgement is made.
What these reports reveal, gives us data to improve our institutions, on both sides of the Atlantic. That will probably not extend to the removal of resource from the intel industry: nor is it likely to witness a reduction of dependance on intel.

The culpability of this pair, on grounds both of incompetence as to the big and subtle picture, and as to their compromise of our respective constitutional processes in a rush to war based on conviction; simply remains, and must be pressed.

Our questioning of our intel institutions, and of our reliance on them; is a separate issue: but one also worthy of being pressed.

One would think that they would have examined their intelligence reports a little better because going to war is such a big deal. As I see it now, in light of this report, seems rather Highschoolish to me. Here's how it plays out in my head.

Tenet "Hey Bush! John said your mom is fat!"
Dubya "WHAT?!"
Tenet "Yeah, Debra's friend Susan overheard him talking 'bout yo mama!"
Dubya "That little nerd is dead! Nobody talks 'bout my mama!"

(Moments later in the parking lot)
Dubya "JOHN!"
John "Huh?"
Dubya "I'm going to kick yo bum for talking 'bout my mama!"
John "But I didn't say anything..."
Dubya "Shut up!"
/Dubya pwns John
Dubya "That's what you get for talking 'bout my mama!"
/John is unconcious
/enter Susan
Susan "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], why did you do that?!"
Dubya "Because Tenet said you heard him talking 'bout my mama!"
Susan "WHAT?! All he said was he saw her at the store and said "Hi"!"
Dubya "Errr...."
/Tenet slinks away

Mϋzikdϋde said:

At least your placing blame equally on both sides

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To me it seems obvious that everybody screwed up.

Intelligence Community - Their work sucked and based on rumors. They didn't actually know much substantial and much of what they did report was flat out wrong.

Administration - Being to eager to accept this information since it supports their agenda and acting to hastily without verifying anything.

Bad intelligence + predisposition for war = hair trigger. Maybe I'd feel a bit better about the situation of Dubya, Tenet, anybody with power really would have stood up and said "This is nice and all but how about we wait a month or two and actually verify that this is true before we start dropping bombs, otherwise I can't go thru with this and still sleep at night."

Mϋzikdϋde said:

I hear ya. I'm just sick of everyone acting like it's completely Dubya's fault and seemingly ignoring any other factors that came into play. Thanks for the input.

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Muzik, the question that still remains is did Bush and Co. form a conclusion and then demand evidence from the CIA to back that up. There have been allegations before to that effect. That's the investigation I want to see. But we won't until after the election.

It would be stupid to make conclusions right now, but the hole that Bush has got himself into seems to be getting even deeper...

the_malevolent_milk_man said:

To me it seems obvious that everybody F'd up.

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It was very clear throughout the whole buildup to war that they had nothing to go on.

Mϋzikdϋde said:

So you're saying they blew it but without malice.

(see how I did that in one sentence?)

Or are you saying they intentionally tried to screw the world up for self gratification?

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I'm saying that their culpability goes much deeper than anyhting you suggest.
Namely, that this pair took two countries to war against another, based on their own conviction, and their own perspective of conviction: I'm saying that we went to war, crucially, because we had two somewhat fundamentalist Christians at the helm.
In doing this, in acting on conviction, they both somewhat subverted domestic and international institutions and processes, that have been laboriously built up to protect the human world.
They acted to block out contrary opinion, of all sorts: they took us to war, without sufficient domestic and international consensus, and with insufficient legal authorisation.

In their conviction, they brought fascism into our democratic processes: they made Christianity, as the backdrop to their conviction, into a variant of democratic fascism

They cannot now slide away from accountability, by saying that the intel was at fault.

I would be shocked if, on this side of the Atlantic, the Butler report similarly gives impression of exonorating Tony Blair.
If it does, British constitutional process would be in major crisis: as that suggestion of exoneration as regards intel; will just not be plausible to a large part of the British electorate.
My suspicion is that Tony Blair might well resign following this Butler report.

As another poster said: this US report does not look at the GWB handling of the intel; it merely looks at the intel, in terms of some criteria of what is satisfactory in intel.
Americans have more reverence for their leaders than do we: I would not expect even this second report, to be effectively critical of GWB; perhaps especially if he were to be ellected for a second term.

I think that what is involved in judging Bush and Blair: is the biggest test that the western world has faced, since WW2.
If we do not act to find their style of leadership wanting, and put in place the necessary safeguards, to prevent such adventure happening again: then the world faces a progressive slide into democratic fascism, government by opinion formation, rather than on the basis of facts and evidence.
Growing terorism is a threat: but, the threat to the world posed by this democratic fascism, Christian flavoured as it has become with this pair; poses an infinitely greater threat.

terribly sorry, e1. they wouldn't let me rep you again yet. well done

Muzikdude, I don't doubt that Bush may have been misinformed, but I'm concerned that part of the reason he was misinformed may have been a lack of critical thinking ability. That's not the kind of trait I want my president to have, you know?