Wicca - Good or Evil

leewood1987

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one to heal a broken heart, which i was suffering, now if you excuse me LifeSaver i have more pressing matters elsewhere helping a very dear friend of mine interpret a dream of hers which could be precognative, let us hope our paths cross again, all in all i do enjoy talking to you on the odd occasion, when you are friendly and not intolerant
 
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Existential1

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Hitokiri Shadow said:
I do not think Wicca is the "evil, demonic cult" portrayed by some people. I do not believe it holds malicious or harmful practices or beliefs.

But, as a Christian, I believe Wicca to be a tool of Satan and therefore "evil."

So, on the basis of the reason you here present: is Wicca of Satan, and evil; simply because it is NotChristianity.
That is the designations Satanic and evil, need not have specific content, or definition: beyond the formal matter of being NotChristianity.

So what preceded Christianity, in a setting: and what is systemically and countervailingly alternate to Christianity; will always earn the default designation of being Satanic and evil.

Is there any ground on which Wiccan and Christianity might come to see themselves as alternate "takes" on something, say divination: no matter how limited any initial comparison might be?

More seriously is coexistence, here with the Wiccan, a genuine and sustainable option for the Christian?

How does current culture and law, as to inclusion and tolerance: bear on this mutual comprehension; between Wiccan and Christian?
 
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Cerridwen

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Hey~

True, Ravenwolf. Spellwork requires a lot of mental strength & discipline. To answer Lifesaver's questions (again), yes, I have cast spells that were successful & not purely psychological. As a matter of fact, I have just had a very good spell come to fruition as of late-to find a house that we like, located where we want it to be, & that we can afford...that spell has been successful-in spades. Every healing spell I have ever cast has been successful, as well as many others of a personal nature. I have yet to sincerely cast a spell that didn't work.
Apparently, many of those who don't understand Wiccan spellwork think that we cast stupid spells for personal gain without acknowledging or accepting the possible consequences. We are prevented from causing harm through our Rede, harm to another or harm to ourselves. We don't "make things happen and all else be damned". Spellwork is very serious business, & not to be played with. You don't cast a spell just because you can, nor do you cast one to "prove" that magick exists. If you don't know what you're doing, if you don't know how to direct your own energy, your spells will not work. That's not to say that all spells are difficult, because they aren't. Candle & needle spells are among the easiest-a child can do that type of spell without a problem. What is necessary, though, is personal responsiblity for whatever you send out, & sincere belief that what you set out to accomplish will indeed happen.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*
 
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Lifesaver

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Wait a second... you found a house as the result of a magick spell?

What kind of spell was this? What was the mechanism through which it worked its effect? How are you sure no-one was harmed (someone who would buy the house but, because of your spell, didn't)?

And last: are there any spells which really show there is something else at work other than the world working normally? For example, a spell that makes it rain?
 
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Cerridwen

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I asked for it to happen, and it did. We've waited a long time to find this place, & after having first been told that we wouldn't be able to get it, after the spell was cast, out of the blue, several months later, the owner called & said she had decided to sell it to us after all.

Some people are perfectly capable of calling down lightning, and there are spells (or dances, as the Native Americans) to ask for rain, help, protection, you name it, there's probably a spell for it. As long as there is need, then there is a spell one can cast to help.

How do you know that your prayers aren't just the "world working normally"?

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*
 
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Lifesaver

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Cerridwen said:
I asked for it to happen, and it did. We've waited a long time to find this place, & after having first been told that we wouldn't be able to get it, after the spell was cast, out of the blue, several months later, the owner called & said she had decided to sell it to us after all.
Okay, so the spell maybe operated directly in the mind of the owner?

Some people are perfectly capable of calling down lightning, and there are spells (or dances, as the Native Americans) to ask for rain, help, protection, you name it, there's probably a spell for it. As long as there is need, then there is a spell one can cast to help.
Interesting how they never cast these...
A lot of people needing rain so badly, and not one witch will go there and help them.

How do you know that your prayers aren't just the "world working normally"?
The answer to many prayers that ask for things are the world working naturally. The universe was just created to work in a way that such a thing would happen, and was only created so because a person would pray for a such a thing.
God, being omniscient and omnipotent, has no difficulty in doing that.
Still, many prayers are answered in the form of God granting a special grace for someone, as in making their minds more acceptable of Him (still with the freedom to reject Him, though), for example.
And then there are the prayers which are answered truly miraculously, in a way that no natural explanation is possible.
 
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Hitokiri Shadow

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Existential1 said:
So, on the basis of the reason you here present: is Wicca of Satan, and evil; simply because it is NotChristianity.
That is the designations Satanic and evil, need not have specific content, or definition: beyond the formal matter of being NotChristianity.

What does not come from God, comes from Satan. This includes beliefs and powers such as Chi/Ki, magick, or whatever. That is my belief (and many, but not necessarily all, Christians believe this).

So what preceded Christianity, in a setting: and what is systemically and countervailingly alternate to Christianity; will always earn the default designation of being Satanic and evil.

Pretty much. Judaism is the exception in that it did not come from Satan, but rather Satan prevents Judaism from progressing by accepting Jesus Christ as the fulfilment of the Law. They are still waiting for the Son of God to come.

Is there any ground on which Wiccan and Christianity might come to see themselves as alternate "takes" on something, say divination: no matter how limited any initial comparison might be?

Wiccans may see it this way. Most Christians will simply see it as a false view.

More seriously is coexistence, here with the Wiccan, a genuine and sustainable option for the Christian?

If by coexistence, you mean living next door to eachother and being friends, yes. If you mean, will Christians stop trying to witness to you and try to help you accept Jesus Christ as you Savior, then, no.

How does current culture and law, as to inclusion and tolerance: bear on this mutual comprehension; between Wiccan and Christian?

Huh?
 
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Smilin

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Hitokiri Shadow said:
What does not come from God, comes from Satan. This includes beliefs and powers such as Chi/Ki, magick, or whatever. That is my belief (and many, but not necessarily all, Christians believe this).
So, the early Native Americans spirituality came from Satan? (We
are talking pre-European contact timeline)
 
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Volos

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Liufesaver said:


Have you casted successful spells? Which were them?
been down this road before

If someone says yes they you lie and claim it is the work of your satan.



If someone says no they you lie and claim it is proof that magic doesn’t’ exist.
 
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Existential1

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Hitokiri Shadow said:
If by coexistence, you mean living next door to eachother and being friends, yes. If you mean, will Christians stop trying to witness to you and try to help you accept Jesus Christ as you Savior, then, no.
.. .. ..

Huh?

I mean more than this: and that more is indicated by what you say Huh? to.

Caesar and religion are closer today, in terms of mutually intruding on each other, than they have been in the past.

Religion will not leave Caesar unchallenged, just because it is Caesar; and Caesar will not leave religion unchallenged, just because it is religion.
For whatever reasons there is much more consequential mutual scrutiny going on.

I would hold that Caesar is now beholden, to examine every element, of every religion; to see whether it is in conflict with our basic laws and customs.
Co-existence will be that which is consistent with the intention, values, and perspectives of these basic laws and customs; and any religion that is found to be harbouring mucky kit in this regard, will be hauled before the moot.
There will be complexities, there will be subtleties: but the days of religion being above the law, even as to the details of its beliefs; are gone.

So, if the Wiccan neighbour of a Christian, raises concerns about Christian impulse to conversion, then we deal with important matter of co-existence, and we must pass it through due and appropriate process.
Jesus, of course, is way ahead of us in this one: love your neighbour as your self, and in God; seems to cover it all.
Where my take on what Jesus indicates, is that Evil calling, beyond its legitimate use where dealing with putative teachers: has to be left outside the needles eye, that sees us entering into true love for our neighbour. Jesus says, do this providentially, have faith that God will provide all that you need.
To my mind, that makes it beholden on us to understand how the Wiccan arises in God: and I simply do not see how that is compatible with a beginning, which has the Wiccan designated as Evil.
Jesus says IMO, enter the house and way of the Wiccan: have no fear, but that what you have in me, and with God; will endure in this, and not pass away. Listen to the music of your Wiccan neighbour's dance with me; eat of the food they have gathered in my company: in all this I shall not desert you, nor shall the truth that is God's.
 
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Ryal Kane

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As an atheist, I consider both spells and prayers to be in the same catagory. They are a focus of one's perception in the hope of a solution. If this focus allows one to find hat solution or to overcome the problem them good. I fully support it. I am even willing to conced that there may be some element of human consiousness that can manipulate the surrounding world.

However, the problem may develop that the act itself becomes more important than the objective, ie prayer is so important to an individual that they do nothing to solve the problems themselves, only hoping to an outside source.

Repeated prayer and magical chants also bear resemblance to meditative mantra, an inward calming focus to ignore the negatives and discover new solutions.

If they are helpful, then they are 'good'. If they are harmful then they are 'bad'. Professing the superiority of one ofver the other, to the extent of saying 'prayer is real, spells aren't' certainly isn't going to sway anyone or anything but the needles on irony-meters.

Ryal Kane
 
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Existential1

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Ryal Kane said:
As an atheist, I consider both spells and prayers to be in the same catagory. They are a focus of one's perception in the hope of a solution. If this focus allows one to find hat solution or to overcome the problem them good. I fully support it. I am even willing to conced that there may be some element of human consiousness that can manipulate the surrounding world.

However, the problem may develop that the act itself becomes more important than the objective, ie prayer is so important to an individual that they do nothing to solve the problems themselves, only hoping to an outside source.

Repeated prayer and magical chants also bear resemblance to meditative mantra, an inward calming focus to ignore the negatives and discover new solutions.

If they are helpful, then they are 'good'. If they are harmful then they are 'bad'. Professing the superiority of one ofver the other, to the extent of saying 'prayer is real, spells aren't' certainly isn't going to sway anyone or anything but the needles on irony-meters.

Ryal Kane

I could work with this.

I would want to change solution to resolution re-solution: as all these approaches involve a re-entry to a divined and absolute metier; which mediates and demands, a renegotiation of self and identity itself.
Only in some surrender to the truth of the metier, and a dieing to the possibility of self that would have it otherwise, is the remedying potential of divinity approached.

Which can take us on to consider another of your points; that these ways become important to an individual.
The aspect of this I would emphasise, has to do with the consumating sense of the self entailed when it works: so more than copping out of the effort of doing itself, for this remains a demanding way of doing; its that the consumation involved, just like sex and drugs, is so sweet and intoxicating, as to become an end in itself.

Where things perhaps go badly wrong, and depart from your utilitarian principle: is where Religion or belief is organised to protect the consumation, and not what it was supposed to be a means to; where the Religious can also come to see those whose difference, seems to contribute to a progressive failure in consumation, as evil: where, in fact, what has caused the degradation in consumation, is the making of it an end in itself.

So all of these things, prayer magic meditation sin evil, all are practice and understanding, where crucial relation to others can be struck: where much can consequently become complex and subtle, and go wrong in these relations.

I say all this, because only in some minority of instances, is the utilitarianism you suggest, actually applied: and what becomes more urgently in need of attention, is not the positive potential of all of these things; but the negative consequence of conflicts arising between them.
 
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ravenwolf

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What does not come from God, comes from Satan. This includes beliefs and powers such as Chi/Ki, magick, or whatever. That is my belief (and many, but not necessarily all, Christians believe this).
Now you call Chi as evil because "it does not come from God"...I am curios, do you even know what Chi is???? Chi is simply the chinese word for life force, or life energy/God energy to some...something we all have within, so does that mean you are saying that life force/life energy/God (that is in all things me and you included) is evil???? This really makes no sense at all....
Blessings
~ravenwolf
 
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SickChick73

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Lifesaver said:
It is evil, first because it is false, and also morally because it doesn't even accept the reality of sin, and thus doesn't stress the necessite of repentance.
if you knew what you really knew the smallest bit about wiccanism you would reconize our rede being "do as thou will, and it harm none". **thinks**
 
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