What was the religion of Jesus?

HEY VAJRAD,

Namaste,

thank you for the replies.

there are several schools of Jewish practice, to which one did He adhere, if He did, in fact, adhere to one?

thank you in advance

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I KNOW IM ARRIVING VERY LATE AND HAVE NOT READ ALL OF THE DIALOGUE ON THIS THREAD HOWEVER
i'LL ANSWER AND REBUTAL AT THE SAME TIME.

Jesus did not agree with the Jews in aspects of faith.

The fact that He was a Jew does not mean He believed and taught Judaism

Jesus did not come to teach the world Judaism, He taught that He was the way , the truth and the light and no one gets to God but through Jesus

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i GREATLY DISAGREE.
WHAT MESSIAH DID WAS TEACH TRUE OBSERVANCE TO TORAH WHICH IS JUDAISM, AND AS TO WHAT GROUP HE BELONGED TO AS FAR AS HIS BODY IS CONCERNED IS PHARISAIC JUDAISM.

THINK ABOUT IT.
THERE WERE THE ESSENES WHICH JOHN THE IMMERSER WAS A PART OF - THE DESERT JEWS THAT DID NOT LIKE THE SYNAGOGUE NOR THE TEMPLE BECAUSE THEY SAW IT CORRUPTED.

THE SADDUCEES- WERE ONLY TEMPLE PEOPLE- THEY HAD NOT A GREAT DEALING WITH THE PEOPLE- BUT HAD AN ENOURMOUS ONE WITH THE GOVERNMENTS IN AS FAR AS KEEPING THE TEMPLE GOING - BUT NO DOUBT IT WAS CORRUPTED.

THE PHARISEES- THE SYNAGOGUE PEOPLE. THE ONES THAT HAD GREAT INFLUENCE WITH THE LAY MEN/ COMMON FOLK.
AND THEY WERE ALSO BIG IN THE TEMPLE AND MANY SCRIBES (TEMPLE MEN) WERE WITH THE PHARISEES.
ONLY THESE TAUGHT IN SYNAGOGUES- SO MOST OF ALL THE SYNAGOGUES FOUND WERE INDEED PHARISAIC AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY. ALL SYNAGOGUES IN THE CITY OF JERUSALEM AND JEWISH PROVINCES WERE PHARISAIC.

AND THE NAZERENES- WHICH WERE CITY ESSENES.
THE ESSENES STAYED AWAY FROM THE CITY BECAUSE THEY SAW EVEN THE CITY WAS DEFILED- THAT IS WHY THEY STAYED IN THE WILDERNESS.
THE NAZERENES (WHICH DID INDEED EXIST BEFORE MESSIAH YHshWH) DWELLED IN THE CITY YET DID NOT SEE THE SYNAGOGUE NOR THE TEMPLE AS THEIR AUTHORITY.

SO, i'LL ASK QUESTIONS.

WHERE DID MESSIAH YHshWH(JESUS) TEACH?
IN A SYNAGOGUE, ALSO MANY SYNAGOGUES.
DID NOT MESSIAH ALSO GO IN THE TEMPLE FREQUNTLY?

DID HE NOT ALSO TEACH HIS DICIPLES TO LISTEN AND OBEY THE PHARISEES BUT TO NOT DO WHAT THEY DO IN MATTHEW CHAP23?
WHICH ONLY BACKS UP TO DO WHAT THEY TELL US TO DO BUT EXCEED THEM IN TORAH OBSERVING ACTS IN MATTHEW CHAP 5:17-20?

DOES HE NOT ALSO TELL HIS DICIPLES TO "YEACH NO ONE TO BREAK ANY PART/LEAST OF THE COMMANDMENTS OR THEY'LL BE THROWN INTO THE PIT(THE LEAST IN HIS KINGDOM)"
AND THAT A PERSON MUST TEACH TO KEEP THE ENTIRE TORAH?

MESSIAH WAS INDEED A JEW
AND HE INFLUENCED MUCH OF JUDAISM.
I SEE A GREAT INFLUX OF HOW JESUS INSPIRED A RABBI NAMED ELEAZAR IN TALMUD.
AND EVEN MANY OF JUDAISMS TEACHING TODAY IS OF JESUS.

SO ALL OF YOU "CHRISTIANS" NEED TO LEARN AND UNDERSTAND WHO MESSIAH ACTUALLY WAS BEFORE YOU SPEAK AGAINST WHO HE ACTUALLY WAS BECAUSE OF YOUR IGNORANCE.
SO DO NOT BE IGNORANT AND COME TO LEARN- IT WILL ONLY HELP YOU ANYWAY.
THE NEW TESTAMENT IS A SIMPLE JEWISH BOOK WRITTEN BY SIMPLE JEWS AND 1 GENTILE THAT WAS AS FRUM AS HIS CONTEMPERARIES.

SHALOM U'BRACHA

HI TALMID

Anyways, Yeshua was not a pharisee but he did have a number of practices in common. He was a teacher referred to as a Rabbi which was the most important position among Pharisees. Had students (Talmidim) in the tradition of Pharisee rabbis. Went and taught in Synagogue (a pharisee practice). He broke many of the traditions of the Pharisees, but kept all the laws of the Bible.

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REMEMBER THERE WERE TWO DIFFERENT HOUSES IN THE PHARISAIC MOVEMENT.
IT SEEMS SOMEWHAT THAT HILLEL SURVIVED BUT SHAMMAI WAS GREATLY INFUSED INTO IT.

I DO KNOW THAT THEY BOTH HAD DIFFERENT PRACTICES, YET THEY WERE BOTH PHARISAIC.
AND THEY WERE ALWAYS AT ODDS AS FAR AS TO WHAT PRACTICES SHOULD BE DONE AS FAR AS WHAT GOES, AND THEY WERE IN COMMON WITH MANY PRACTICES. ONE OF THEIR DISAGREEMENTS IS THE PRACTICE OF SHEMA WHEN YOU RISE AND LAY.
REMEMBER?

NOW i DO SEE MANY TEACHINGS OF MESSIAH YHshWH IN JUDAISM AND EVEN IN TALMUD AND EVEN IN ZOHAR AND KABALLAH.

MESSIAH, THOUGH REJECTED IN HIS PERSON THEY RECIEVED HIS TEACHING.
SO NO DOUBT MOST OF US JEWS ARE IN LASHON HORAH THOUGH WE DONT SEE IT AS SUCH.
i HOWEVER DO SEE IT.

NOW WHAT I DO SEE MESSIAH DOING IS MAKING HIS OWN "PHARISAIC" HOUSE- BASICALLY- HE WAS THE STRONG MAN OF THE PHARISAIC MOVEMENT.
TRUTH BE KNOWN HE WAS EVEN THE STRONG ONE ABOVE THE PHARISEES FOR HE TAUGHT THEM AND THEY COULD NOT REBUTT.
HE WAS THE STRONG ONE ABOVE ALL OF THE CONTEMPORARY SECTS. YET, HIS PRACTICE WAS SYNAGOGUE PRACTICE- A PHARISAIC PRACTICE.
BY THIS HE BASICALLY MADE HIS PHARISAIC MOVEMENT THE REIGNING ONE TRIUMPHING EVEN OVER ALL OF THE OTHER PRACTICES AND YET ALLOWING THEIR PRACTICE.

MESSIAH WAS NO DOUBT A PHARISEE WITH A DIFFERENT HALACHA. SAME AS HILLEL HAD A DIFFERENT HALACHA THAN SHAMMAI.

MESSIAH AGREED GREATLY WITH MANY OF THE PRACTICES - THING IS- ALL OF THOSE PRACTICES NEED BE DONE AT THE PROPER TIMES AS NOT TO NEGATE ANY.
ALL OF THE FENCES OF THE RABBIS ARE GOOD- AGAIN, JUST AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT NEGATE ANY OF TORAH

SHALOM U'BRACHA

vajradhara said:

Namaste Atkin,

thank you for the post.

just so, just so. Jesus does not inherit the "adamic" sin (i like that phrase) so He's not "just like us in every respect" rather He's a "perfected" us. would that be a fair summation?

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Exactly. He is perfect and we can be Christlike when we cleanse our sins by repenting genuinely and fully accepting Christ as our personal saviour and acknowledging that Christ is God in flesh.

sojeru said:

HI TALMID




MESSIAH WAS NO DOUBT A PHARISEE WITH A DIFFERENT HALACHA. SAME AS HILLEL HAD A DIFFERENT HALACHA THAN SHAMMAI.

MESSIAH AGREED GREATLY WITH MANY OF THE PRACTICES - THING IS- ALL OF THOSE PRACTICES NEED BE DONE AT THE PROPER TIMES AS NOT TO NEGATE ANY.
ALL OF THE FENCES OF THE RABBIS ARE GOOD- AGAIN, JUST AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT NEGATE ANY OF TORAH

SHALOM U'BRACHA

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EXCUSE THE CAPS-- NOT SHOUTING BTW JUST for this one message.
WHO ARE THE HUMAN JEWS TODAY?
THEY ARE NOT GOD
THEY ARE MERE MORTALS.
JESUS IS GOD --- DENIAL OF THAT LEADS TO ETERNAL DEATH, PHARISEE, JEW OR GENTILE

I WILL GIVE YOU THIS DIRECT STATEMENT--JESUS WROTE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS

JESUS SPOKE TO MOSES ON MOUNT SINAI

THIS MAY BE REJECTED BY JEWS, WHY WILL PHARISEES CLAIM TO BE OF GOD

WHAT WAS TO BE PREACHED TO ALL NATIONS? TORAH? NO

THE JEWS THINK THEY HAVE THE OLD COVENANT. FALSE, JESUS WROTE THAT OLD LAW AND WHEN GOD SPEAKS TO YOU, YOU DO NOT GO BACK IN TIME AND STICK TO WHAT JESUS EARLIER GAVE THE HEBREWS IN EXODUS.

BEFORE ABRAHAM , JESUS WAS ON EARTH

THE JEWS WERE CONFUSED WHEN JESUS TOLD THEM JOHN 8:58

JESUS SPOKE TO ABRAHAM GENESIS 18

THERE IS NO SALVATION BASED ON YOUR PASSPORT OR YOUR CITIZENSHIP

AGAIN, THE LORD'S PRAYER IS REJECTED BY MANY RABBIS

OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME,THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE, ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN

Namaste Atkin,

thank you for the post.

just so, just so. Jesus does not inherit the "adamic" sin


Composer responds: Such false teachings clearly contradict the Scriptures.

Jesus was NOT Inherently Perfect, but was MADE Perfect by his sufferings - Proof: -

‡ though, being a Son, learned ‡ OBEDIENCE from what he suffered ; 9 and ‡ having been perfected, became a Cause of aionian Salvation to all THOSE who OBEY him ; (Heb. 5:8 - 9) Diaglott Original NT Greek Interlinear

Jesus inherited the Adamic cursed nature as ALL mortals inherit. Jesus inherited it by way of his Mother Mary. Proof: -

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} (Rom. 5:12) KJS

Jesus was a MAN - Proof: -

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God . . . (Acts 2:22) KJS

The difference is that Jesus "overcame" that Adamic Nature by doing No added sins to those he inherited.

hi atkins,
notice im using lower case now vajrad
i use caps when i use caps and i use lower case when i use lower case.

means nothing unless i actually make it so that the readers can see a stressing point.

oh yeah atkins,
i thought the TOPIC was what religion was Mashiach YHshWH
(notice why i write his name as such- if you had done that earlier you wouldnt have spoke words to fight me in the manner you did about him being Hashem)
secondly, the question shifted into a more defined one- "of what Jewish sect was this jewish man named YHshWH from?"
and so i answered in both posts i have up from earlier.
"as far as his body is concerned" Messiah is a pharisee, from the tribe of judah (with half judean - half levite blood) from his mother adopted by Yossef the son of David.

shalom u'bracha

LORDS PRAYER REJECTED BY RABBIS?

AGAIN, THE LORD'S PRAYER IS REJECTED BY MANY RABBIS

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no, this is indeed false.
for we had in the past something very similar- however until 230CE we, jews, stood against anything "christian" because of all the "christians" that made their way against us.
And we BELIEVING jews were caught right in the middle, being hated by both sides- the unbelieving jews and the "christians".

there was an ammidah for a person in hurry to say a quick version of the amidah. YHshWH had done that- teaching them how to pray- not too long not too short, just right- it begins by recognizing and acknowledging HaShem as AVinu (our father) while the entire amidah, only at the very end does it acknowledge HaShem as Avinu.

If you already knew this- i dont see how you can stand and IMPLY that all of and even the contemperaries of Messiah YHshWH rejected everything that he was and taught.

All it shows me is that either you are ignorant to our talmudic and religious literature or you chose to stay in ignorance.

either way, i ask you to come out of them both.
I nor you have any need of me teaching you any of our heritage(the jews heritage) you can look across the entire net to see and hear and learn.

but anyway,
the contemporaries of messiah did not reject it- it was considered an adimah to them.
for they had the same thing- one very similar to the "L-rds prayer"

but since all of the "christian" supremacy we decided to block out every thing from our writtings that might cause the "church" to fight us and even destroy us. so everything dealing with Mashiach YHshWH was out.

What was the religion of Jesus?

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Don't be silly. Jesus didn't HAVE a religion.

Religion is a set of rituals by which one hopes to garner God's or gods' attention and favor, but Jesus IS God and doesn't have to get his own attention or favor.

Don't be silly. Jesus didn't HAVE a religion.

Religion is a set of rituals by which one hopes to garner God's or gods' attention and favor, but Jesus IS God and doesn't have to get his own attention or favor.

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Lambs love, dont be silly, for you must not read the bible on your own in its entirety and take what you hear and teach falacies and doctrines of men that do not have THE BREATH upon them.
Stop in your ignorance and read that there is RELIGION and obviously if James, brother of Mashiach YHshWH acknowledges it- Messiah himself was the author of it.
READ:

Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain.
Jam 1:27 PURE RELIGION and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.

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now VAJRAD,
who spoke up and brung up paul?
I agree that the majority of the unlearned ones called "christians" repeat pauls word in their own interpretations more and subject messiahs words to what they think paul said- however they are in wrong.

And you yourself are in wrong too.
For you claim that Paul is wrong.
Just because you do not understand the simple Jewish mystery of how HaShem is TWO and THREE but HE IS ONE, does not mean that paul is farce.

IT IS AN ORTHODOX, ULTRA ORTHODOX jewish teaching that Hashem is Manifested in 3 however HaShem is ONE.
You might want to take a look in the Zohar concerning deuteronomy.

I AM JEW- and just because most jews do not have the knowledge of what our sages have written does not mean that the sages are wrong. and it does not mean that what the majority of us jews teach concerning the person of HaShem is correct.
Most jews, even if they are othodox and or ultra orthodox do not have knowledge of the person of HaShem.
Hashem is ONE manifested in 2 and 3

SHALOM

Composer said:

Namaste Atkin,


Jesus inherited the Adamic cursed nature as ALL mortals inherit. Jesus inherited it by way of his Mother Mary. Proof: -

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} (Rom. 5:12) KJS

Jesus was a MAN - Proof: -

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God . . . (Acts 2:22) KJS

The difference is that Jesus "overcame" that Adamic Nature by doing No added sins to those he inherited.

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You are wrong. Angels Genesis 18 Genesis 19 are referred to as men since they appear in human form but are not human men.

First go back to Genesis 18. God himself is on Earth speaking to Abraham. The Lord God is in human form but is not a limited human man.

Lesson The term man is either

a mortal human man born of male sperm fusing with a human female egg

or a human male form either a non human male angel like Angels Gabriel

The angels in Daniel are also referred to as man, they are not human mortal men
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Daniel 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river,
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Jesus Christ was made slightly lower than angels BUT HE WAS NOT the product of Josephs seed and Mary's egg.

Human males carry inherited Adamic sin

Angels called men as in Daniel have no adamic sin for they are not human beings but are simply called men for they have the body parts of men temporarily while visiting earth.

this man below is NOT A HUMAN BORN ON EARTH MAN BUT IS CALLED man as he has the form of a man
DANIEL 10: 5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
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Human God in flesh Jesus begat of Holy Spirit and Mary did not have Adamic sin.

He overcame well and that overcoming meant he was subject to temptation and tempted by sin but no sin was in him as inherited.
Theoretically, in human form he could have been tempted but we cannot speculate on what never happned ie For he did not submit to temptation

Atkin said:

Jesus was the Messiah and He happened to be a Jew who came to teach Jews

If Jesus had been just like a Pharisee, the Jew Pharisees would not have been corrected on so many occasions by Jesus regarding their numerous errors and misapplication of what they thought was Judaism/faith in God.

Jesus disagreed with the Pharisees but God knew this would happen anyway, and the scribes and Pharisees felt His power was getting out of hand and His "BEFORE ABRAHAM, I AM" really was beyond their comprehension and they felt that was unbelievable.
The Pharisees rejected him and played a prophesised role in the disagreements and complaints that led to his crucifixion.

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Yeshua did correct the Pharisees and Scribes on the fence laws that they added over the years that made the Torah a Burden, yet he also said to do what the Pharisees said and to not do what they do. If Yeshua was teaching some other belief then why would He Keep the Torah and teach others to do as well? If we are to be as Yeshua shouldn't we do as He did in His daily life? Walk as He walked?

The Good News According to Matthew
8:1 When he came down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 2 Behold, a leper came to him and worshiped him, saying, "Lord, if you want to, you can make me clean."
3 Yeshua stretched out his hand, and touched him, saying, "I want to. Be made clean." Immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 Yeshua said to him, "See that you tell nobody, but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."
...
23:1 Then Yeshua spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat. 3 All things therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do, but don't do their works; for they say, and don't do.
Quote:
The Good News According to Luke
16:16 The Torah and the Prophets were until Yochanan. From that time the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one tiny stroke of a pen in the Torah to become void.
...
23:50 Behold, a man named Joseph, who was a member of the council, a good and righteous man 51 (he had not consented to their counsel and deed), from Arimathaea, a city of the Judeans, who was also waiting for the Kingdom of God: 52 this man went to Pilate, and asked for Yeshua's body. 53 He took it down, and wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid him in a tomb that was cut in stone, where no one had ever been laid. 54 It was the day of the Preparation, and the Sabbath was drawing near. 55 The women, who had come with him out of Galilee, followed after, and saw the tomb, and how his body was laid. 56 They returned, and prepared spices and ointments. On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
If these people followed and Believed what Yeshua taught then why are they Obeying the Commandments of Torah?

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A quick reply.
My opinion is that just after Yeshua and the Original Apostles and Disciples who seen Yeshua were gone from the scene Hasatan came in and brought great confusion. Also since the Non-Jews Followers of Yeshua were becoming more numerous then the Jewish Followers of Yeshua, the Non-Jew background in understanding YHWH were different since they came from Pagan type religions and were understanding YHWH in that perspective which would bring much confusion.

Remember Torah is Instructions of how to serve YHWH and live a life to Him.

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

Tag

vajradhara said:

namaste Shamash,

thank you for the reply...

is it your opinion, then, that as the teachings moved from a primarily Jewish audience to a Gentile audience the underpinings were changed to better suit the Gentile audience?

this seems to be, in my opinion, what happened. is Hasatan the devil or Satan as it is termed?

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Your welcome very much vajradhara,

Yes, only according to their Non-Jewish upbringing. Since the Gentile Nations were worshipping other gods in their upbringing they could not understand YHWH who the Jews have been keeping the Scriptures of YHWH for thousands of years, the gentiles could only understand according to those gentile gods.

Hasatan is Satan, yes.

Tag