Is there anything God cannot do?

herev · Jun 24, 2004

Can we have some good, friendly debate?
How do you feel about this statement.
"There is nothing God cannot do."

For me, I agree completely, but that means we cannot say God cannot lie, God cannot be wrong, God cannot be unjust, etc. He can do anything, He is just so good, He chooses not to.
I believe that saying God cannot is always an oxymoron.
What are your thoughts?
I look forward to your posts! :wave:

Thanks
Rev. Tommy Conder

daveleau · Jun 24, 2004

How about "God can do all things".
That gets rid of the oxymoron.

I totally agree that He can do all things, but He only does things that He wants to do, according to His will. There are instances where people point to His mind being changed, but Scripture points more to Him having the flexibility of changing His mind based on our actions than Him being wrong or being persuaded by our words. Like with Nineva, He stayed their invasion because of their change of heart based on Jonah's preaching. There are also instances of God not doing things that He foresaw He was going to do based on their current actions and the path that He saw them on. When they changed their ways to righteous ways, He changed what He was going to do.

God can do all things, but He doesn't do things just to do things. He always has a purpose. We sometimes don't understand the purpose, but good always comes from what He does. It might look bad to begin with from our point of view, but there is a plan involved that has the best interest in mind.

We often see things as being unjust, like young children dying or not getting such-n-such in our lives. With the first example, we concentrate on our world and do not realize that these children are where we all long to be- with God in Heaven. As for the second, we do not see His plan and do not know what the outcome would have been had we received what we had asked for. It could have been something that would have brought us misery or taken us away from an opportunity to witness or a myriad of other issues.

God has our best interest in mind. Even when He disciplines His flock, as is seen in Hebrews 12, He wants us as Christians to be like Him and that discipline is meant to guide us towards Him.

So, I totally agree. We might not see what the outcome is, but God can do all things.

God bless you,
Dave

HoT-MetaL · Jun 24, 2004

He doesnt effect free-will.

But I dont think that means to say he cant.

Just a though

God Bless, metal.

dnich163 · Jun 24, 2004

herev said:
How do you feel about this statement.

Good one Rev !!

I think that God cannot change.
To change would infer he was "less than perfection" and needed to change.
I feel that is why we say "God just is"
My view is something like that of Aquinas I think,that God cannot do anything against the eternal law that he in his reality actually is....that is anything against himself.

David

artybloke · Jun 24, 2004

To change would infer he was "less than perfection" and needed to change.

Kind of depends on how you see change. Is change about getting better or worse, or is it just about moving from place to place? I quite like the Exodus idea of God being a flame or a star leading the people of God into "new things."

In fact, the idea of perfection as a static thing seems rather Greek philosophical to me (Platonic even), whereas the Biblical Hebrew idea is of a God who is constantly on the move, constantly creating, constantly loving. The Hebrew God is an active God, a god of "pathos" not "apathos." The God of the Exodus is a God who travels ahead of us.

herev · Jun 24, 2004

dnich163 said:
Good one Rev !!

I think that God cannot change.
To change would infer he was "less than perfection" and needed to change.
I feel that is why we say "God just is"
My view is something like that of Aquinas I think,that God cannot do anything against the eternal law that he in his reality actually is....that is anything against himself.

David

But if God wanted to change, could He. Could He decide that He no longer wants to be loved or to love humans because of our infidelity. could He decide to stop answering prayers. Could He decide to no longer manifest Himself in three persons--if He wanted to, that is. In other words, is God limited by an outside force or are His limitations self-imposed. If they are self-imposed, can He not unimpose them? :scratch:

Good point, though--thanks

jbarcher · Jun 24, 2004

I don't feel anything.

I'll tell you what I think though, which is what I think you are asking...

Omnipotence (the view that I hold, anyway) is that God can do anything that is logically possible. God cannot make square-circles or square-triangles, because that is a contradiction in terms. It is possible for God to destroy everything and create it instantly; that is logically possible, but to our knowledge, that doesn't/hasn't happened. If God is a holy God, and He is perfect, then He cannot lie--if He could, then we would be asking God to be contradictory.

I bring the issue of logical possibility up because there are many skeptics or those wishing to make a slam against Christianity who ask, "Why couldn't God just make us so that we would choose to do good?" (emphasis mine)

Firstly, choice requires at least two possibilites.

Second, by asking God to be contradictory, that nullifies the problem of evil--nothing that God does is really wrong, or right, as there is no standard.

If God is a holy God, and He is perfect, then He cannot suddenly double-back on what He has said (without some kind of qualifier...I forget the passage I'm thinking of). If He promises a Messiah, then He will deliver.

Also, take a look at this passage, it's rather interesting...2 Chronicles 20:1-20...Jehosaphat asks three questions--are You not, did You not, and lastly, will You not.

Immutable. Unchanging. And something that needs to be explained well.

Dad Ernie · Jun 24, 2004

herev said:
Can we have some good, friendly debate?
How do you feel about this statement.
"There is nothing God cannot do."

For me, I agree completely, but that means we cannot say God cannot lie, God cannot be wrong, God cannot be unjust, etc. He can do anything, He is just so good, He chooses not to.
I believe that saying God cannot is always an oxymoron.

I don't see the oxymoron at all when I consider God's omni qualities:
Omniscience
Omnipresence
Omnipotence
Eternality

When we say that God CANNOT sin, what we are saying is that whatever proceeds from the mouth of God, that shall He do. He does not change. He is perfect in all His ways. Sin is those things which are done which is not in obedience to God's Word. Thus by His very nature, He CANNOT sin.

If He were to "sin", whom would He be disobeying? How would we know if He did sin? For whatever comes out of Him, He performs it, thus we stand back in awe of such a great God and must bow down to Him just because He IS who He IS.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

BarbB · Jun 24, 2004

herev said:
But if God wanted to change, could He. Could He decide that He no longer wants to be loved or to love humans because of our infidelity. could He decide to stop answering prayers. Could He decide to no longer manifest Himself in three persons--if He wanted to, that is. In other words, is God limited by an outside force or are His limitations self-imposed. If they are self-imposed, can He not unimpose them? Good point, though--thanks

Sure he COULD un-impose them, but since he is perfect holiness, righteousness, justice, etc. why would he? The idea that he might kinda shakes the rock my feet are standing on!

Antonio83 · Jun 24, 2004

If we believe the words of Jesus when he said that with God all things are possible. Then there is our answer.

Leviticus 19:1-2
The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.

***
Personally, I believe God has the ability to choose between doing good and evil (aka free will) just like you and me. He wants us to choose to be holy just like He chooses to be holy. God does not change, because He chooses not to change. He is perfectly good. No need to change. Holiness is everlasting and evil is shortlived.

herev · Jun 24, 2004

Dad Ernie said:
I don't see the oxymoron at all when I consider God's omni qualities:
Omniscience
Omnipresence
Omnipotence
Eternality

When we say that God CANNOT sin, what we are saying is that whatever proceeds from the mouth of God, that shall He do. He does not change. He is perfect in all His ways. Sin is those things which are done which is not in obedience to God's Word. Thus by His very nature, He CANNOT sin.

If He were to "sin", whom would He be disobeying? How would we know if He did sin? For whatever comes out of Him, He performs it, thus we stand back in awe of such a great God and must bow down to Him just because He IS who He IS.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Very Good answer--that is a first for me and one I may have to use as an exception. God cannot sin! Thanks!

herev · Jun 24, 2004

newlamb said:
Sure he COULD un-impose them, but since he is perfect holiness, righteousness, justice, etc. why would he? The idea that he might kinda shakes the rock my feet are standing on!

Yeah, I don't think he would, either--it's the power thing that I'm getting at. Is He Omnipotent? Can he if He wanted.
Thanks for the input!

herev · Jun 24, 2004

Antonio83 said:
If we believe the words of Jesus when he said that with God all things are possible. Then there is our answer.

Leviticus 19:1-2
The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.

***
Personally, I believe God has the ability to choose between doing good and evil (aka free will) just like you and me. He wants us to choose to be holy just like He chooses to be holy. God does not change, because He chooses not to change. He is perfectly good. No need to change. Holiness is everlasting and evil is shortlived.

Yes--exactly as I was thinking!

herev · Jun 24, 2004

sweetsoulsong said:
I don't feel anything. I'll tell you what I think though, which is what I think you are asking...

Omnipotence (the view that I hold, anyway) is that God can do anything that is logically possible. God cannot make square-circles or square-triangles, because that is a contradiction in terms. It is possible for God to destroy everything and create it instantly; that is logically possible, but to our knowledge, that doesn't/hasn't happened. If God is a holy God, and He is perfect, then He cannot lie--if He could, then we would be asking God to be contradictory.

I bring the issue of logical possibility up because there are many skeptics or those wishing to make a slam against Christianity who ask, "Why couldn't God just make us so that we would choose to do good?" (emphasis mine)

Firstly, choice requires at least two possibilites.

Second, by asking God to be contradictory, that nullifies the problem of evil--nothing that God does is really wrong, or right, as there is no standard.

If God is a holy God, and He is perfect, then He cannot suddenly double-back on what He has said (without some kind of qualifier...I forget the passage I'm thinking of). If He promises a Messiah, then He will deliver.

Also, take a look at this passage, it's rather interesting...2 Chronicles 20:1-20...Jehosaphat asks three questions--are You not, did You not, and lastly, will You not.

Immutable. Unchanging. And something that needs to be explained well.

thanks for the response--I disagree though with the square circles and such. I see God as the creator of the physics of this universe, so he could bend them if he wanted. LOgically, you're right, let's not expect God to be other than God--I agree.
I like antonio's response, though, God is Holy by choice the way I see it. That's what makes Him God--He is so much bigger, better, etc than us, He actually can choose to do right.

deu58 · Jun 24, 2004

Hello all

God can not lie, he can not cheat, he can not deceive, he can not break a promise, he can not mislead, he can not force you to accept love and gift of salvation.

Mr 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Mr 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

yours in Christ
DEU58

dnich163 · Jun 24, 2004

herev said:
But if God wanted to change, could He. Could He decide that He no longer wants to be loved or to love humans because of our infidelity. could He decide to stop answering prayers. Could He decide to no longer manifest Himself in three persons--if He wanted to, that is. In other words, is God limited by an outside force or are His limitations self-imposed. If they are self-imposed, can He not unimpose them? Good point, though--thanks

Personally I don't think that God in perfection would need to change.
Isn't he/she sometimes described as the Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end.
To take love away is also beyond God I believe as he is "perfect love" so here we have another limitation (in the human sense) that we can attribute to God.

David

herev · Jun 24, 2004

deu58 said:
Hello all

God can not lie, he can not cheat, he can not deceive, he can not break a promise, he can not mislead, he can not force you to accept love and gift of salvation.

Mr 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Mr 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

yours in Christ
DEU58

good quote, Why can't God lie--and if he can't does that mean he is not omnipotent?

herev · Jun 24, 2004

dnich163 said:
Personally I don't think that God in perfection would need to change.
Isn't he/she sometimes described as the Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end.
To take love away is also beyond God I believe as he is "perfect love" so here we have another limitation (in the human sense) that we can attribute to God.

David

Nice response--I agree, He would not need to change.
What really got me started is the word, Omnipotent--ALL POWERFUL. If God is ALL POWERFUL, what does it mean to say he can't...fill in the blank.
These are all great comments.

deu58 · Jun 24, 2004

Hi Herev

good quote, Why can't God lie--and if he can't does that mean he is not omnipotent?

Because lying is a sign of weakness and imperfection. Usually something done by people to hide a mistake or avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Sometimes people lie to protect other people. This may seem acceptable to many but the truth is it is simply imperfection concealing more imperfection.

It is also a breach of trust and once you find out that some one you trust has lied to you that trust is forever damaged. The whole basis of faith is to trust God 100%. That is why the agents of Satan try so hard to prove the Bible to be in error. If they can damage our trust in God s Word then they can begin to weaken our trust and faith in other areas much more easily.

Yours in Christ
DEU58

herev · Jun 24, 2004

deu58 said:
Hi Herev

Because lying is a sign of weakness and imperfection. Usually something done by people to hide a mistake or avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Sometimes people lie to protect other people. This may seem acceptable to many but the truth is it is simply imperfection concealing more imperfection.

It is also a breach of trust and once you find out that some one you trust has lied to you that trust is forever damaged. The whole basis of faith is to trust God 100%. That is why the agents of Satan try so hard to prove the Bible to be in error. If they can damage our trust in God s Word then they can begin to weaken our trust and faith in other areas much more easily.

Yours in Christ
DEU58

Ok, you got me there, I agree. Thanks. God cannot lie--to do so would change who He is, then He wouldn't be God, ok.
God bless!

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