How many dispensations are there?

Explain dispensation.

Most normative dispies say seven: Innocence, consceience, government, promise, law, grace, millennial.

Progressives say usually say Patriarchal, Mosaic, Ecclesial, Zionic (millennial)

What if there weren't any dispensations? I mean, since the Dispensational system is relatively recent, our ancestors in the faith found other ways to describe God's program of salvation. I recommend going the route of the Covenant: follow the various cov. God instituted with Man, especially beginning with Abraham and culiminating in the New Covenant, "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with Judah...I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts." Jeremiah 31:31-33 Al

There at most are two, one most likely, given the fact that the Righteous Old Testament folks also were saved by the same hope that Christians have.
Jeff the Finn

I still prefer to see 2 major cov: the Old Cov of Law (Gal.4:24) and the New Cov which fulfills the expectations of the earlier Cov(Heb.8:7-8, 13). The Abr. Cov. is the granddaddy of them all in which Abr. is promised that all the nations of the earth will be blessed thru Him. I doubt the need for a "Cov. of Grace" since it is never explicitly mentioned, tho it is true that in all generations God has saved by His goodness and grace all who trusted in Him. Al

I think I read somewhere that the understanding Israel had concerning time was in two Dispensations. They understood time as: This Present Age and The Age To Come, these being seperated by a short period Called The Day of the Lord.
Then again the only Dispensation as referring to time in scriptures that I can find is the Dispensation of the Fullness of Time.

jeffthefinn writes: "There at most are two, one most likely, given the fact that the Righteous Old Testament folks also were saved by the same hope that Christians have."

"For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles-if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you..." (Eph. 3:1-2).

If there is just one covenant of grace that operates uniformly in every age, then what is Paul referring to when he asserts that a stewardship of divine grace, before unrevealed, was committed to him?

In Christ,
Tracey

duster1az said:

If there is just one covenant of grace that operates uniformly in every age, then what is Paul referring to when he asserts that a stewardship of divine grace, before unrevealed, was committed to him?

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The fact that it was unrevealed does not mean that it did not exist. Salvation has always been by the Grace of God. However, this was not fully explained in the OT.

Philip writes: "The fact that it was unrevealed does not mean that it did not exist. Salvation has always been by the Grace of God. However, this was not fully explained in the OT."

Are the Church and Old Testament saints to be considered as one and the same? Is there no difference in regard to their relationship to Christ? Didn't Paul receive new revelation he was to formulate and proclaim regarding saving grace? Is the age we live in no different from that before the cross?

In Christ,
Tracey

Allen2 said:

What if there weren't any dispensations? I mean, since the Dispensational system is relatively recent, our ancestors in the faith found other ways to describe God's program of salvation. I recommend going the route of the Covenant: follow the various cov. God instituted with Man, especially beginning with Abraham and culiminating in the New Covenant, "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with Judah...I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts." Jeremiah 31:31-33 Al

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You are right , Dispensationalism is a recent belief. The Reformation taught Covenant theology and within that there were three covenants Works and Grace and redemption.

The Covenant of Works: Lasting from creation until the fall.

* Man's conditions - Adam must obey God
* God rewards obedience with eternal life, punishes disobedience with death


The Covenant of Grace: Lasting from the fall until the second advent.

* a. Man's conditions - saving faith issuing in obedience
* b. God's response - salvation in all of its phases

Covenant of Redemption. This covenant is optional. It occurred before creation.

* The Son - perfect obedience in death promised to the Father
* The Father - promised to the Son: 1) all the Son's needs to be met; 2) Holy Spirit given to the Church; 3) salvation to all believers; 4) exaltation of the son.

The problem with Dispensational Theoloy is it implies that God continues to try and fail..each time having to approach man in a different way to bring salvation

St Paul's revelation was that it The Gospel was also open to the Gentiles that did not need to become Jewish folks first. Abraham was considered righteous because of his faith, and therefore there is no difference between an Old Testament Saint and a New Testament or later Saint.
Jeff the Finn

jeffthefinn writes: "St Paul's revelation was that it The Gospel was also open to the Gentiles that did not need to become Jewish folks first. Abraham was considered righteous because of his faith, and therefore there is no difference between an Old Testament Saint and a New Testament or later Saint."

It's is true Paul revealed that Gentiles were welcome to experience God's saving grace, but are you sure that was the extent of the revelation?

I say something far more difficult to accept was taking place. Those who were accustomed to the religious order that had been in place for 1900 years would claim that Paul was saying much more. As a matter of fact Paul was saying that now there was no difference between Jew and Gentile (Rom. 10:12; cf. 3:9). Understand, the Jew was being removed from the place of special privilege that they enjoyed in the previous age and were leveled to the same standing as the Gentile-"under sin."

Up until the cross Judaism had not only been the religion, but it had been engendered, promoted, and blessed by God. At the time it was God's will for His people. But, today, in the present age, God's divine intent is to call out from among the Jew and Gentile a company that comprises the Church.

Rest assured, although Judaism is in abeyance today, it will be taken up again and carried to its predicted consumation. A record of this understanding is given in (Acts 15:13-18).

In my estimation, what distinguishes one as a dispensationalist isn't how many dispensation you believe there are, but the understanding that Israel and the Church are not one and the same. They have different divine purposes, one being earthly and the other heavenly, with their seperate eschatologies.

In Christ,
Tracey

If Israel and the Church are on two distinguishable tracks, how does this square with Paul's statement: "through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together WITH ISRAEL, MEMBERS TOGETHER OF ONE BODY, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus", Eph.3:6.? Al

Allen2 writes: "If Israel and the Church are on two distinguishable tracks, how does this square with Paul's statement: "through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together WITH ISRAEL, MEMBERS TOGETHER OF ONE BODY, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus", Eph.3:6.?"

Chapter 3 of Ephesians defines the Church as a secret, before unrevealed, that provides for the forming of a new Body by making Gentiles fellow heirs, and of the same body. I see no ground for contention that the "promise in Christ by the gospel" is something that had never been heard? I believe it was as new to the Jew as to the Gentile. According to verse five, Paul's revelation is the unfolding of a mystery, or secret, "which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit."

The book of Acts (chapter 15) deals with the Council at Jerusalem and relates their coming to an understanding of a new divine purpose (vss 13-18). Look closely at (vs 16), "After these things I will return, and I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen and I will rebuild its ruins, and will restore it." What does this passage refer back to? Was it not that God first would take from among the Gentiles a people for His name? Since the gospel had grown beyond just the Jews, the Council met to consider what had become of the Jewish covenants and promises. The conclusion was clear: God was working among the Gentiles as well, and after this new purpose was complete God's dealings with the Jewish covenants and promises would be revisted. That Jews were already being visited and were being saved was taken for granted. Therefore, the new purpose of God was accepted by those who were saved and its message proclaimed to Jew and Gentile alike.

In the Abrahamic covenant God numbers Abrahams descendants as the "dust of the earth" (Gen. 13:16) and as the "stars of heaven" (Gen. 15:5). One relates to his earthly line or his literal descendants and the other relates to the Church, his heavenly descendants.

The Christian is a citizen of heaven (Eph. 2:6) and an ambassador for Christ (2 Cor. 5:20). We aren't supposed to be looking for a long life here, but are to be looking for the coming of our Lord. In contrast Israel is looking forward to the promised land (Gen. 15:18).

In Christ,
Tracey

duster1az said:

In contrast Israel is looking forward to the promised land (Gen. 15:18).

In Christ,
Tracey

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The Abrahamic land covenant was fulfilled. (cf. Joshua 21:43-45).

duster1az said:

Are the Church and Old Testament saints to be considered as one and the same? Is there no difference in regard to their relationship to Christ? Didn't Paul receive new revelation he was to formulate and proclaim regarding saving grace?

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The only difference in regard to their relationship to Christ is timing. The OT saints were saved by the faith that the Messiah would come. We are saved by the faith that the Messiah did come.

Is the age we live in no different from that before the cross?

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There are differences, but salvation has always been by the Grace of God.

Jesaiah writes: "The Abrahamic land covenant was fulfilled. (cf. Joshua 21:43-45)"

In light of her unchangeable covenants, it's essential that Israel's dispossession of the land be recognized. In doing so we should understand that these dispossessions also involve regatherings. There were clear predictions of three dispersions and three regatherings. As of the present time Israel is now scattered in her third and final dispersion awaiting the last regathering.

Predicted dispersions: (1) Into Egypt (Gen. 15:13-16). The reurn of the nation to the land under the leadership of Moses and Joshua (Joshua 21:43-45) marks the end of the first dispersion. (2) The Captivities (Jer. 25:11-12). The bondage ended seventy years after the southern kingdom was taken captive, but still not all that were taken returned. The important fact is that a representation of the whole nation was reassembled in the land. Daniel learned from the Jerimiah passage when the time of bondage would be fulfilled (Dan. 9:1-2). (3) Present Dispersion (Neh. 1:8; Jer. 9:16, 18:15-17; Ezek. 12:14-15). The present dispersion exceeds the others in duration and in the manner in which Israel is now scattered among all nations. From the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. the scattering continues to this hour.

That Israel will yet be fully returned to her land is one of the Bible's greatest predictions (Deut. 30:1-3; Ezek. 37:21-28). It must be accepted in its literal form or be ignored completely. Too often the latter is done.

In Christ,
Tracey